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♪ (TENSE STRING MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
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{\an8}(INDISTINCT CHATTER CONTINUES)
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{\an8}Yeah, this has really been
a long-standing nightmare
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for the Austin community,
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especially for individuals
who have lived with this
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for such a very long time,
and...
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(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
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♪ (TENSE STRING MUSIC
CONTINUES) ♪
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KIRK WATSON:
Good morning, everyone.
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Thank you to all of you that
are here with us this morning.
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Over three decades
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after a horrible crime took
the lives of four teenage girls,
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and changed Austin forever,
our hearts haven't healed.
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They're still broken
for the precious girls we lost.
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More than a quarter-century ago,
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{\an8}in a circumstance
much like this today,
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{\an8}I said that Austin lost
its innocence
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{\an8}the night those young souls
became victims.
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Time has passed.
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We are different people
and a different city.
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And while there's no change
to the horror,
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no diminishing the grief,
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we can finally express
a deep sigh...
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a release that comes
from knowing.
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Today, finally,
we have an answer.
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♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
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♪ ("DEVIL TOWN"
BY ALLEGRA KRIEGER PLAYING) ♪
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♪ I was living in a devil town ♪
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{\an8}♪ Didn't know
It was a devil town ♪
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♪ Oh Lord
It really brings me down ♪
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{\an8}♪ About the devil town ♪
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♪ I was living in a devil town ♪
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♪ Didn't know
It was a devil town ♪
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♪ Oh Lord
It really brings me down ♪
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♪ About the devil town ♪
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♪ (SONG CONCLUDES) ♪
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♪ (ETHEREAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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SONORA THOMAS:
I used to babysit this family
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on this street, and I've
always tried to remember
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which house it is.
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And there's a street
on the right side
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called Sonora Street.
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I think we might have
passed it already.
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I don't quite know
this neighborhood
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as well as I used to.
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{\an8}♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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SONORA: When the detective
called me on Friday,
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just within minutes,
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I couldn't hear
what he was saying.
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I need to, like,
hear this again ten times
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before I know enough
to even ask a question.
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(TURN SIGNAL CLICKING)
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SONORA: And I can just
feel my mind racing.
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I mean, it's only been
three or four days
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since I've had
this new piece of information,
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so I know this will settle.
But right now, I just feel...
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Yeah, I definitely
don't feel my body.
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I thought it was
always farther down.
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♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
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-Yeah, I'm not really sure.
-MARGARET BROWN: Yeah.
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I remember there being
a big tree, but...
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now I'm sort of disoriented.
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I thought there was a vase
that was sticking up. Okay.
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-(BIRDS CHIRPING)
-(SONORA SIGHS)
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{\an8}MARGARET:
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{\an8}Yeah, that'd be good.
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Just a few minutes.
We can leave in a minute.
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(SIGHS)
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(INSECTS CHIRPING)
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♪ (SONORA HUMMING SOFT MELODY) ♪
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♪ (CONTINUES HUMMING) ♪
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♪ Surround you... ♪
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-♪ (CONTINUES
SINGING INDISTINCTLY) ♪
-♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC OVERLAPPING) ♪
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♪ (SONORA CONTINUES HUMMING) ♪
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-(KIDS SHOUTING, LAUGHING)
-♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪
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BOB AYERS: They drove all
the way from Austin to tell us.
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♪ (SONORA CONTINUES HUMMING) ♪
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PAM AYERS:
I feel kind of numb in a way.
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I think it's 'cause
it's still so new to us.
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SHAWN AYERS: In one sentence,
it went from
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thirty-something years
of thinking one thing to...
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"No, it's totally
something else."
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BARBARA AYRES-WILSON:
When they explained it to us,
I just felt bad,
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'cause they had already had
to talk to every other parent.
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It's a lot of people
to have to repeat this story to.
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BOB:
He was looking at us and said,
"I've got some good news."
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And then there was a long pause.
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I'll never forget that.
He said...
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"I know who killed
your daughter."
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♪ (SONORA HUMMING SOFT MELODY) ♪
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♪ (CONTINUES HUMMING) ♪
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♪ (DAN JACKSON HUMMING) ♪
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{\an8}(MUTTERS INDISTINCTLY)
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{\an8}When I took the case over
in early June of 2022,
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{\an8}we talked
about the physical evidence,
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how limited it was.
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♪ (SOMBER PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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{\an8}DAN: One of the few things
we had was
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that .380 casing found
in the floor drain.
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It had been uploaded
into the ATF's database,
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and it never got any hits.
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JOHN JONES:
The lands and grooves told us
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exactly what kind of gun it was.
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We put that
on the wire coast-to-coast.
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We knew what we were
looking for exactly.
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DAN: The system's called NIBIN,
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National Integrated Ballistics
Information Network.
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{\an8}So, think of, like,
the national DNA database,
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{\an8}but instead of DNA,
it's spent shell casings.
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The way the gun holds
the casing,
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it creates these microscopic
little indentions,
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and then the software
can compare those
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if the same gun was used
in different crimes.
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So, I thought, "Well, you know,
it's been a long time.
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I assume the data
is still in the database,
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but let me double check,
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and maybe there's something
we can do with it now."
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For whatever reason,
I don't know why,
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something told me
to go down that rabbit hole.
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It had been uploaded
at least twice.
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'97, and then again in '07,
and no matches.
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If it's been that long,
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the software now is light-years
ahead of what it was.
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It's like three-dimensional
type stuff now.
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So, July 2nd, they went
and pulled it from evidence.
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And that afternoon
they called me,
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and I was actually...
just left town for vacation.
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And I was sitting on the beach
in Port Aransas,
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and they were like,
"Hey, are you sitting down?"
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I was like, "Yeah,
I'm sitting down on the beach.
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What's up?" I was like,
"Do I need a drink for this?"
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And he's like, "Yeah, you need
to pour yourself a drink.
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We got a hit."
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{\an8}♪ (INTRIGUING MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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{\an8}DAN:
To another unsolved homicide
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in 1998 in Lexington, Kentucky.
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{\an8}REPORTER 1: This is
43-year-old Linda Rutledge.
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{\an8}Police say
on November 7th, 1998,
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{\an8}they responded to help
the Lexington Fire Department
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{\an8}with a fire at a business.
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{\an8}When they got there,
they found a woman dead
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{\an8}inside the back of the store,
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{\an8}later confirmed
to be Linda Rutledge.
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{\an8}When they found Linda's body
here on 121 Malabu Drive,
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{\an8}they found injuries
unrelated to the fire.
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{\an8}We cover all the bases
with any fire.
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{\an8}That's what we do
anytime we find a body
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{\an8}where it's suspicious in nature.
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{\an8}REPORTER 2:
Ms. Rutledge's death
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{\an8}had since been ruled a homicide.
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{\an8}REPORTER 3:
No suspect or suspects
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{\an8}have ever been found.
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{\an8}DAN: This woman had been killed
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{\an8}in a strip mall
in a retail space,
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her parents' hearing aid store.
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She would use
the hearing aid store
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after hours to go change.
I think she'd been bartending,
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and she was gonna
go change clothes,
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and go out with friends.
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So, she stopped there,
and never made it to the bar.
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♪ (MUSIC INTENSIFIES) ♪
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DAN: Later that night
or early next morning,
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somebody was driving by
and saw the fire.
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Just like yogurt shop,
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the fire department put
the fire out,
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and found her body...
in the back.
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She had been shot
in the head with a .380.
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Just like yogurt shop,
she had been sexually assaulted.
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Front door's locked
from the inside,
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and so, obviously, probably
went out the back door, which,
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if you look at the back door
of that strip mall,
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it looks just like yogurt shop.
It's like an alley.
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Probably most strip malls look
the same.
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I got back from vacation,
met with Lexington PD.
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Tried to find
any sort of common link.
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Their casing had only
been uploaded in 2024,
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so a year ago.
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♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
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DAN: At the end of the week,
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we didn't really have
any other connection.
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♪ (SOMBER STRING
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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DAN: You know,
Lexington wasn't anything
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in our radar for our case,
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and they didn't have
any Texas connections.
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Same gun,
seven years later, similar MO.
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00:10:47,814 --> 00:10:49,983
We collaborated
on a testing strategy.
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One of the things they had
was a sexual assault kit.
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So, we don't have a DNA profile
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00:11:04,831 --> 00:11:06,249
that would be good enough
for CODIS.
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00:11:06,332 --> 00:11:07,750
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
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00:11:07,834 --> 00:11:10,295
CODIS, the Combined
DNA Index System,
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00:11:10,378 --> 00:11:13,590
so it's a national database
held by the FBI.
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00:11:13,673 --> 00:11:18,678
♪ (DRAMATIC SYNTH
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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00:11:18,761 --> 00:11:20,096
PRESENTER:
The CODIS program has had
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00:11:20,180 --> 00:11:22,473
many success stories
since it began.
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00:11:22,557 --> 00:11:24,434
As the database increases,
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00:11:24,517 --> 00:11:27,187
{\an8}so does the number
of solved crimes.
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{\an8}DAN: You have to have
a certain amount of DNA.
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00:11:28,980 --> 00:11:30,398
It has to be a certain quality.
201
00:11:30,481 --> 00:11:31,941
You gotta have like a full...
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00:11:31,983 --> 00:11:33,276
what's called
a full CODIS profile
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00:11:33,359 --> 00:11:35,486
to get it uploaded.
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00:11:35,570 --> 00:11:38,948
Partial or degraded profiles
would get false positives.
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00:11:39,032 --> 00:11:40,867
♪ (INTRIGUING MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
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00:11:40,950 --> 00:11:42,660
DAN: I said, "Well, we don't
have a CODIS profile.
207
00:11:42,744 --> 00:11:44,746
All we have is our Y-STR.
208
00:11:45,747 --> 00:11:47,207
Do y'all have a Y-STR?"
209
00:11:47,290 --> 00:11:50,126
And said, no, they don't have
one for this case.
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00:11:50,168 --> 00:11:52,086
{\an8}REPORTER 1: The prosecution
asked for a delay
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00:11:52,170 --> 00:11:53,880
{\an8}to sift through
recent DNA evidence.
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00:11:53,963 --> 00:11:55,506
{\an8}REPORTER 2: A Y-STR profile,
213
00:11:55,590 --> 00:11:57,842
{\an8}it doesn't match
any of your defendants.
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00:11:57,926 --> 00:12:02,472
{\an8}REPORTER 3:
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00:12:02,513 --> 00:12:03,640
There is no database
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00:12:03,723 --> 00:12:06,309
for this particular type
of profile.
217
00:12:06,392 --> 00:12:08,269
This is a Y-only profile.
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00:12:08,353 --> 00:12:10,980
And there's no database
for that.
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00:12:11,064 --> 00:12:13,900
DAN: Y-STR profiles,
the male chromosome DNA
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00:12:13,983 --> 00:12:15,485
that those tests look for.
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00:12:15,568 --> 00:12:17,528
There's not an automated
searchable database.
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00:12:17,612 --> 00:12:18,863
It's not like you can
just upload it
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00:12:18,947 --> 00:12:20,823
and search continuously
224
00:12:20,907 --> 00:12:22,909
because the nature
of a Y profile is that
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00:12:22,992 --> 00:12:25,078
they're not unique
to an individual.
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00:12:25,161 --> 00:12:28,748
So, you would get hits that are
totally unrelated to your case.
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00:12:30,416 --> 00:12:32,835
What you can do
is a manual search.
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00:12:32,919 --> 00:12:35,672
Take the profile I have,
and physically sit down,
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00:12:35,755 --> 00:12:37,840
and type it in
against other Y profiles
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00:12:37,924 --> 00:12:39,384
in other cases in your state.
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00:12:40,218 --> 00:12:41,177
(MOUSE CLICKING)
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00:12:41,219 --> 00:12:43,096
DAN: So, if this guy
is from Kentucky,
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00:12:43,179 --> 00:12:44,555
you can see
if anything matches up
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00:12:44,639 --> 00:12:47,183
with a known offender there.
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00:12:47,225 --> 00:12:49,185
That's when I was like,
"Well, why don't we just do that
236
00:12:49,269 --> 00:12:51,020
{\an8}for the whole country?"
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00:12:51,062 --> 00:12:53,022
{\an8}Not all labs collect
these Y profiles,
238
00:12:53,064 --> 00:12:55,483
{\an8}but more and more
are starting to.
239
00:12:55,566 --> 00:12:56,943
{\an8}We asked everybody
around the country,
240
00:12:57,026 --> 00:12:59,112
{\an8}and everybody came back
with nothing
241
00:12:59,195 --> 00:13:00,613
{\an8}except South Carolina.
242
00:13:02,573 --> 00:13:05,785
{\an8}They got a hit.
We got 27 for 27 markers.
243
00:13:06,661 --> 00:13:07,704
{\an8}A Y profile
244
00:13:07,787 --> 00:13:09,163
{\an8}from a sexual assault
and homicide
245
00:13:09,247 --> 00:13:11,874
{\an8}out of Greenville,
South Carolina, from 1990.
246
00:13:15,336 --> 00:13:17,714
♪ (SOMBER PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
247
00:13:17,755 --> 00:13:19,799
DAN: They said
they wanted to review it.
248
00:13:19,882 --> 00:13:21,426
We got to do
some quality assurance,
249
00:13:21,509 --> 00:13:23,761
make sure we typed it in
all correctly, 'cause it's a...
250
00:13:23,845 --> 00:13:25,054
you know, it's human error.
251
00:13:25,138 --> 00:13:27,724
We think because we were
the first people to ever ask.
252
00:13:27,807 --> 00:13:29,350
They had never gotten
a request before.
253
00:13:31,102 --> 00:13:32,186
{\an8}They had to make sure
that this
254
00:13:32,270 --> 00:13:33,563
{\an8}could be a candidate
for our crime
255
00:13:33,604 --> 00:13:35,356
{\an8}before releasing
more information.
256
00:13:35,982 --> 00:13:37,108
{\an8}I said, "Okay, no problem."
257
00:13:37,191 --> 00:13:39,861
So, that was like
a really long two weeks to wait.
258
00:13:41,571 --> 00:13:43,614
{\an8}When I talked
to the detective there,
259
00:13:43,698 --> 00:13:44,782
he didn't know anything
about our case.
260
00:13:44,866 --> 00:13:46,826
And I said something about,
"Well, our quadruple..."
261
00:13:46,909 --> 00:13:48,828
And he was like,
"Quadruple? Like, what?"
262
00:13:48,911 --> 00:13:51,372
♪ (MUSIC TURNS TENSE) ♪
263
00:13:51,456 --> 00:13:52,999
DAN: "Yeah, you can look it up."
I was like,
264
00:13:53,082 --> 00:13:54,584
"There's actually
a documentary airing right now."
265
00:13:54,667 --> 00:13:56,085
(CHUCKLES)
'Cause this is right when...
266
00:13:56,127 --> 00:13:58,212
I think it was--
episode three was out.
267
00:13:58,296 --> 00:14:00,173
(CHUCKLES) So I was like,
"If you wanna get caught up
268
00:14:00,256 --> 00:14:01,424
to speed, there's
a really good documentary.
269
00:14:01,466 --> 00:14:03,634
It's on HBO.
Uh, I'm in episode four."
270
00:14:06,346 --> 00:14:08,097
And then he said,
"Let me ask you something.
271
00:14:08,139 --> 00:14:11,100
Were your victims tied up
with their own clothing?"
272
00:14:11,142 --> 00:14:13,311
And I said, "Yeah."
And he goes, "Yeah, ours too."
273
00:14:13,394 --> 00:14:16,272
They used some of her pantyhose,
I believe.
274
00:14:21,027 --> 00:14:22,820
And that's when I was like,
275
00:14:22,904 --> 00:14:24,822
"All right,
we're onto something here."
276
00:14:26,741 --> 00:14:28,326
They sent me a report saying,
277
00:14:28,409 --> 00:14:30,787
"This is an affirmative link
to Greenville, South Carolina,
278
00:14:30,828 --> 00:14:31,996
sexual assault and homicide.
279
00:14:32,080 --> 00:14:34,290
Here's the case number
and the date of offense."
280
00:14:34,332 --> 00:14:35,333
So, I Googled the date,
281
00:14:35,416 --> 00:14:36,417
and "Greenville,
South Carolina,"
282
00:14:36,501 --> 00:14:38,211
and of course,
this murder pops up on Google.
283
00:14:38,294 --> 00:14:40,671
A woman was found murdered
in Greenville County.
284
00:14:40,755 --> 00:14:41,881
She's Jenny Zitricki,
285
00:14:41,964 --> 00:14:45,009
strangled and raped
inside her own apartment.
286
00:14:45,093 --> 00:14:46,761
REPORTER 1:
Found dead in a bathtub,
287
00:14:46,844 --> 00:14:48,137
the water still running.
288
00:14:48,179 --> 00:14:50,515
{\an8}INTERVIEWEE: A violent
serial rapist and murderer.
289
00:14:50,598 --> 00:14:52,517
♪ (SINISTER INSTRUMENTAL
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
290
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:54,143
DAN: So, that manual search,
turns out
291
00:14:54,227 --> 00:14:56,187
not only had
no one ever asked before,
292
00:14:56,270 --> 00:14:57,980
they got a hit
to a serial killer.
293
00:14:58,064 --> 00:14:59,732
{\an8}REPORTER 2: Investigators
across multiple states
294
00:14:59,816 --> 00:15:03,027
{\an8}are working to see if the killer
may be connected to other cases.
295
00:15:03,111 --> 00:15:05,696
DAN: So, again,
you gotta understand,
296
00:15:05,780 --> 00:15:08,908
thousands of men may have
this matching "Y" profile.
297
00:15:08,991 --> 00:15:10,243
So, you know, for our case,
298
00:15:10,326 --> 00:15:12,286
we can't just say
this guy did it.
299
00:15:12,370 --> 00:15:13,663
But I started looking into it.
300
00:15:13,746 --> 00:15:15,915
{\an8}I got in contact
with the Missouri State Police
301
00:15:15,998 --> 00:15:17,792
{\an8}who had worked
on another connected case,
302
00:15:17,834 --> 00:15:20,503
{\an8}a double murder from
I think it was March of '98,
303
00:15:20,545 --> 00:15:23,005
a double homicide in New Madrid.
304
00:15:23,089 --> 00:15:25,007
{\an8}It's not Muh-drid.
It's Mah-drid?
305
00:15:25,091 --> 00:15:26,676
I always say it wrong.
306
00:15:26,717 --> 00:15:30,346
Sherry and Megan Scherer,
mother and daughter.
307
00:15:30,388 --> 00:15:32,974
The husband
and son had just left
308
00:15:33,057 --> 00:15:34,142
to go into town
and do something,
309
00:15:34,225 --> 00:15:36,185
and they came back
30, 40 minutes later.
310
00:15:36,269 --> 00:15:38,646
I don't know how he got in,
we don't know because...
311
00:15:38,729 --> 00:15:40,481
{\an8}he murdered both of them.
312
00:15:40,523 --> 00:15:43,151
And sexually assaulted Megan,
the 12-year-old.
313
00:15:43,234 --> 00:15:44,902
♪ (SINISTER INSTRUMENTAL
MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪
314
00:15:44,986 --> 00:15:47,196
DAN: Two hours after he does
that double murder,
315
00:15:47,238 --> 00:15:49,031
he does
an attempted home invasion
316
00:15:49,073 --> 00:15:50,283
in Dyersburg, Tennessee,
317
00:15:50,366 --> 00:15:53,035
which is only, like,
40 miles away. Same guy.
318
00:15:53,077 --> 00:15:55,538
He tries to force his way
into the home of a woman.
319
00:15:55,621 --> 00:15:56,873
She's able to, like,
keep him out,
320
00:15:56,956 --> 00:15:58,583
but he does shoot
through the door,
321
00:15:58,666 --> 00:16:00,084
and puts a bullet in her arm.
322
00:16:00,168 --> 00:16:02,879
The same gun used in
the Scherer murders in Missouri.
323
00:16:02,962 --> 00:16:04,213
-♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
-(INDISTINCT RADIO CHATTER)
324
00:16:04,297 --> 00:16:06,674
So, he goes, "I've got
an entire case file on this guy.
325
00:16:06,757 --> 00:16:08,551
I put everything together
because I knew someday,
326
00:16:08,634 --> 00:16:10,386
somebody else would be calling."
327
00:16:10,428 --> 00:16:14,849
♪ (SOFT INSTRUMENTAL
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
328
00:16:18,102 --> 00:16:19,937
DAN: It's hard to get
your hopes up in this case,
329
00:16:20,021 --> 00:16:23,107
because there's been
so many letdowns at every turn.
330
00:16:25,651 --> 00:16:27,737
You think this case
is gonna go a certain way,
331
00:16:27,778 --> 00:16:29,697
and you follow that rabbit hole,
332
00:16:29,780 --> 00:16:31,782
and you're way off topic
of where you started.
333
00:16:33,075 --> 00:16:35,286
So, you've just gotta
take a step back,
334
00:16:35,369 --> 00:16:37,330
take it all in objectively.
335
00:16:40,791 --> 00:16:42,126
BARBARA:
It's a lot to ask people
336
00:16:42,210 --> 00:16:45,213
to still be interested
in a 34-year-old case.
337
00:16:47,590 --> 00:16:49,175
I have a friend,
one of the first people
338
00:16:49,258 --> 00:16:51,636
{\an8}I called that morning
after the murders.
339
00:16:51,719 --> 00:16:55,431
{\an8}Uh, she and her friend go
to the yogurt store
340
00:16:55,515 --> 00:16:57,600
about every anniversary
since it happened.
341
00:16:57,683 --> 00:17:00,978
For 34 years, they're there.
I quit going years ago.
342
00:17:01,062 --> 00:17:02,271
I was like,
"It's too much for me.
343
00:17:02,355 --> 00:17:04,482
I think y'all are nuts."
But anyway, they do that.
344
00:17:04,565 --> 00:17:06,442
And she said
there was a big crowd this year,
345
00:17:06,526 --> 00:17:07,652
bigger than normal.
346
00:17:09,987 --> 00:17:11,280
And I so appreciate...
347
00:17:11,322 --> 00:17:14,617
I do not want anyone to think
that I don't appreciate.
348
00:17:14,700 --> 00:17:15,826
It's part of my healing,
349
00:17:15,910 --> 00:17:17,954
it's because of the love
they've given me.
350
00:17:18,037 --> 00:17:19,789
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
351
00:17:19,872 --> 00:17:23,626
But it's not just us.
The community needs to heal.
352
00:17:23,709 --> 00:17:25,127
They need to get past that.
353
00:17:25,211 --> 00:17:30,007
♪ (MOURNERS
SINGING INDISTINCTLY) ♪
354
00:17:32,426 --> 00:17:35,471
(CAR WHOOSHING)
355
00:17:35,513 --> 00:17:37,640
NEIL STEGALL:
'91, I was in graduate school,
356
00:17:37,723 --> 00:17:39,767
and I was in need of some money,
357
00:17:39,809 --> 00:17:42,061
and I contacted a friend
about doing
358
00:17:42,144 --> 00:17:45,356
some reclamation work,
which is what the company did.
359
00:17:45,439 --> 00:17:49,527
{\an8}I got a call from him
on December 7th...
360
00:17:50,653 --> 00:17:53,239
{\an8}and he asked me
to meet him here at the, uh,
361
00:17:54,031 --> 00:17:55,324
yogurt shop site.
362
00:17:58,411 --> 00:18:00,329
And explained to me that...
363
00:18:00,413 --> 00:18:02,873
he was going to be overseeing
364
00:18:02,957 --> 00:18:05,001
the reclamation
of property here,
365
00:18:05,084 --> 00:18:07,962
and also the clearing out
of the yogurt shop,
366
00:18:08,004 --> 00:18:10,172
which included tearing off
all the sheetrock,
367
00:18:10,256 --> 00:18:13,009
and stripping
the store completely.
368
00:18:13,092 --> 00:18:18,431
♪ (GENTLE INSTRUMENTAL
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
369
00:18:20,433 --> 00:18:23,561
Having a connection
to a couple of the girls,
370
00:18:23,644 --> 00:18:26,063
to a sense of connection
to the neighborhood...
371
00:18:28,149 --> 00:18:30,318
I decided I could go ahead
and do that.
372
00:18:32,820 --> 00:18:34,196
And one thing I stipulated
373
00:18:34,280 --> 00:18:36,198
to the people who were going
to work there was
374
00:18:36,282 --> 00:18:39,243
that there was going to be
no joking...
375
00:18:40,119 --> 00:18:41,579
no foul language.
376
00:18:43,122 --> 00:18:45,041
There's enough noise
tearing the place down.
377
00:18:45,082 --> 00:18:47,293
There's no need for us
to add to it.
378
00:18:50,421 --> 00:18:51,547
And it was hard work,
379
00:18:51,631 --> 00:18:53,716
because it wasn't just a store
that had burned,
380
00:18:53,758 --> 00:18:57,219
it was a place
of tragic death...
381
00:18:59,889 --> 00:19:03,768
which made the work slow
in some respects, and...
382
00:19:05,227 --> 00:19:06,979
encouraged us
to bring a lot of respect
383
00:19:07,063 --> 00:19:08,189
to doing that work.
384
00:19:10,608 --> 00:19:13,778
And it's a connection to this
that I had not anticipated...
385
00:19:16,489 --> 00:19:18,032
but one I stepped into.
386
00:19:20,785 --> 00:19:22,161
And in the end, not reluctantly,
387
00:19:22,244 --> 00:19:24,705
I almost felt like there was
something to be done here
388
00:19:24,789 --> 00:19:26,123
that was out of honor.
389
00:19:28,793 --> 00:19:31,379
That it not just be
some random...
390
00:19:31,462 --> 00:19:35,091
demo crew come in
to do the work thoughtlessly,
391
00:19:35,132 --> 00:19:37,426
but it be done with,
again, respect.
392
00:19:40,513 --> 00:19:41,514
And...
393
00:19:42,807 --> 00:19:44,475
it was a very
profound experience.
394
00:19:44,558 --> 00:19:46,143
Regrettable but profound.
395
00:19:59,990 --> 00:20:00,950
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
396
00:20:01,033 --> 00:20:03,285
♪ (INTRIGUING PIANO
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
397
00:20:03,369 --> 00:20:04,787
DAN:
So, I'll back up a little bit
398
00:20:04,870 --> 00:20:07,415
and explain how this guy
gets identified.
399
00:20:07,498 --> 00:20:10,209
Back in the '90s,
he was always moving around.
400
00:20:10,292 --> 00:20:12,545
He's not in CODIS,
'cause his felonies were
401
00:20:12,628 --> 00:20:15,047
when they weren't collecting DNA
back then.
402
00:20:15,131 --> 00:20:16,799
So, he's just running around
403
00:20:16,841 --> 00:20:18,008
committing sexual assault
and murders,
404
00:20:18,092 --> 00:20:19,844
and he's an unknown offender.
405
00:20:21,762 --> 00:20:23,097
In the mid-2000s,
406
00:20:23,139 --> 00:20:26,183
agencies start putting
their old crimes into CODIS,
407
00:20:26,267 --> 00:20:27,977
and they all start linking up
408
00:20:28,018 --> 00:20:31,856
to one unknown
prolific killer and rapist,
409
00:20:31,939 --> 00:20:33,441
but they still don't know
who it is.
410
00:20:36,026 --> 00:20:38,988
So, you've got
this 1990 in South Carolina,
411
00:20:39,029 --> 00:20:41,323
{\an8}pops to the double in Missouri,
412
00:20:41,365 --> 00:20:44,535
{\an8}which links with ballistics
to Tennessee.
413
00:20:44,618 --> 00:20:47,913
And then '97, Memphis,
that DNA goes into CODIS.
414
00:20:49,039 --> 00:20:51,584
In the Memphis case,
he forces entry into a home.
415
00:20:51,667 --> 00:20:53,169
There's four women.
416
00:20:53,252 --> 00:20:54,378
The women had just gotten home.
417
00:20:54,462 --> 00:20:56,005
They just came in
through the door.
418
00:20:56,046 --> 00:20:57,465
So, he saw an opportunity.
419
00:20:57,548 --> 00:20:58,841
(KNOCKING ON DOOR)
420
00:20:58,924 --> 00:21:00,676
REPORTER: Police say
the man knocked on a door
421
00:21:00,718 --> 00:21:01,844
with four women
422
00:21:01,927 --> 00:21:03,262
and a nine-month-old baby
inside.
423
00:21:03,345 --> 00:21:05,806
He asked for help
in finding his wife's purse,
424
00:21:05,890 --> 00:21:07,808
used a gun
to force his way inside,
425
00:21:07,892 --> 00:21:09,518
then cut the phone lines.
426
00:21:09,560 --> 00:21:12,396
He's able to tie
all four of them up... alone.
427
00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:14,899
This was a key element
in the rapist's attack.
428
00:21:14,982 --> 00:21:17,985
He used duct tape to tie up
the people in the house,
429
00:21:18,027 --> 00:21:20,362
then he raped
his youngest victim,
430
00:21:20,404 --> 00:21:22,031
a 14-year-old girl.
431
00:21:22,072 --> 00:21:23,115
{\an8}MARGARET:
432
00:21:23,199 --> 00:21:24,909
{\an8}They all lived.
He let them all live.
433
00:21:25,618 --> 00:21:27,661
I-- I don't know why.
434
00:21:29,580 --> 00:21:31,499
They put out a sketch.
435
00:21:31,582 --> 00:21:33,209
But, you know,
think about, this is the '90s.
436
00:21:33,292 --> 00:21:35,002
There's no
cell phone tower data.
437
00:21:35,085 --> 00:21:36,378
There's no security cameras,
438
00:21:36,462 --> 00:21:37,505
there's no
license plate readers.
439
00:21:37,546 --> 00:21:39,632
There's no 24/7
social media coverage
440
00:21:39,715 --> 00:21:41,050
like there is now.
441
00:21:41,133 --> 00:21:43,052
If it was easy,
these cases would be solved.
442
00:21:43,135 --> 00:21:46,722
But between 2006 and 2017,
they went cold.
443
00:21:48,974 --> 00:21:51,977
JOHN WALSH: This is
Jenny Zitricki's actual diary.
444
00:21:52,061 --> 00:21:53,103
Names, places,
445
00:21:53,187 --> 00:21:55,147
lots of things
that she was doing.
446
00:21:55,231 --> 00:21:57,566
Until it ends right here,
the 4th,
447
00:21:57,608 --> 00:21:59,235
-that's when she was murdered.
-♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
448
00:21:59,276 --> 00:22:01,862
And who knows if one
of the names in this diary
449
00:22:01,904 --> 00:22:03,405
had anything to do with it?
450
00:22:03,447 --> 00:22:04,615
This is the mirror
that was hanging
451
00:22:04,698 --> 00:22:05,866
over Jenny's dresser.
452
00:22:05,950 --> 00:22:07,326
The killer left a message on it.
453
00:22:07,409 --> 00:22:08,869
"Don't 'F' with my family."
454
00:22:08,953 --> 00:22:10,579
It was a personal message
to her.
455
00:22:10,621 --> 00:22:12,498
WALSH: So, you think
it's somebody she might know.
456
00:22:12,581 --> 00:22:14,208
And you're saying,
"Keep an open mind,
457
00:22:14,291 --> 00:22:16,335
this could be a red herring
to throw cops off."
458
00:22:16,418 --> 00:22:17,586
That's right.
459
00:22:17,628 --> 00:22:21,048
DAN: And so, 2018,
this is right at the advent
460
00:22:21,131 --> 00:22:22,508
of genetic genealogy.
461
00:22:22,591 --> 00:22:24,718
{\an8}REPORTER 1: An alleged
serial killer tracked down
462
00:22:24,802 --> 00:22:26,679
{\an8}through a genealogy database.
463
00:22:26,762 --> 00:22:28,264
{\an8}DAN: The Golden State Killer
was solved with it
464
00:22:28,347 --> 00:22:30,432
{\an8}like a year before.
So, that's a brand-new thing.
465
00:22:30,516 --> 00:22:33,435
REPORTER 2: Investigators used
publicly shared DNA data
466
00:22:33,519 --> 00:22:35,980
{\an8}to track down the suspected
Golden State Killer.
467
00:22:36,063 --> 00:22:38,065
{\an8}REPORTER 3:
Using DNA from crime scenes
468
00:22:38,148 --> 00:22:39,650
{\an8}decades ago,
which they submitted
469
00:22:39,733 --> 00:22:42,069
{\an8}to a publicly shared
genealogy website
470
00:22:42,111 --> 00:22:44,280
{\an8}-called GEDmatch.
-REPORTER 4:
Allegedly responsible
471
00:22:44,321 --> 00:22:46,073
for 12 murders, 50 rapes,
472
00:22:46,156 --> 00:22:48,325
and more than 100 burglaries
in California.
473
00:22:48,409 --> 00:22:49,994
DAN: The guys from Missouri,
474
00:22:50,077 --> 00:22:51,620
Tennessee,
and South Carolina said,
475
00:22:51,662 --> 00:22:53,956
"We have enough DNA,
maybe we can do that."
476
00:22:53,998 --> 00:22:55,624
And they reached out
to Parabon Labs.
477
00:22:55,666 --> 00:22:59,795
{\an8}So, I'm gonna build these trees
back to great-grandparents.
478
00:22:59,879 --> 00:23:01,797
{\an8}DAN: They developed
a genealogical profile
479
00:23:01,881 --> 00:23:03,674
{\an8}to get some distant relatives.
480
00:23:03,757 --> 00:23:06,385
{\an8}And then that's when you start
building out those family trees
481
00:23:06,468 --> 00:23:08,804
and seeing where they converge.
482
00:23:08,846 --> 00:23:10,973
And that's
your potential suspect.
483
00:23:11,015 --> 00:23:13,684
-♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
-(KEYBOARD CLICKING)
484
00:23:13,767 --> 00:23:15,519
CECE MOORE: This was
kind of the start of it all.
485
00:23:15,603 --> 00:23:17,938
{\an8}This was what opened the door
486
00:23:18,022 --> 00:23:20,858
{\an8}for the rest of these cases
in 2018.
487
00:23:21,567 --> 00:23:23,152
Instead of an exact match
488
00:23:23,235 --> 00:23:24,945
like they're looking for
in CODIS,
489
00:23:25,029 --> 00:23:26,655
we are looking for relatives.
490
00:23:26,739 --> 00:23:28,949
And usually,
they're very distant relatives.
491
00:23:29,575 --> 00:23:31,452
{\an8}Partial matches.
492
00:23:31,535 --> 00:23:34,914
{\an8}These are the potential
contributor of this DNA.
493
00:23:36,290 --> 00:23:39,501
{\an8}When I researched one
of these potential matches,
494
00:23:39,585 --> 00:23:41,420
I found this article.
495
00:23:43,047 --> 00:23:46,842
This guy was convicted
of attempted murder and rape
496
00:23:46,926 --> 00:23:49,845
in 1985 in Florida.
497
00:23:49,887 --> 00:23:53,557
He immediately jumped out at me.
So, I dug more deeply.
498
00:23:53,641 --> 00:23:56,727
I found his daughter's
Facebook page.
499
00:23:56,810 --> 00:23:58,562
I saw a man in the picture
500
00:23:58,646 --> 00:24:03,150
{\an8}who looked so similar
to those sketches.
501
00:24:03,233 --> 00:24:05,861
{\an8}And not only did it look
like him, but I thought
502
00:24:05,903 --> 00:24:09,198
{\an8}he had the same hat
and the same glasses.
503
00:24:09,239 --> 00:24:13,410
♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
504
00:24:13,494 --> 00:24:15,996
DAN: So, this is
a good candidate
505
00:24:16,080 --> 00:24:17,289
because of his history.
506
00:24:18,832 --> 00:24:21,543
He was sentenced to 12 years
but he got paroled in '89.
507
00:24:21,585 --> 00:24:22,878
So, he's out in '90.
508
00:24:23,921 --> 00:24:25,255
But he was deceased.
509
00:24:26,507 --> 00:24:28,342
And he was buried in Arkansas.
510
00:24:29,551 --> 00:24:31,387
{\an8}And so, they got
a judge's order,
511
00:24:31,470 --> 00:24:32,596
{\an8}and they dug him up...
512
00:24:34,765 --> 00:24:36,016
put it in to CODIS,
513
00:24:36,100 --> 00:24:38,644
and he was a perfect match
for all those crimes
514
00:24:38,727 --> 00:24:39,812
we just talked about.
515
00:24:39,895 --> 00:24:42,398
(OVERLAPPING NEWS REPORTS)
516
00:24:42,439 --> 00:24:44,692
{\an8}REPORTER:
Robert Eugene Brashers.
517
00:24:46,694 --> 00:24:50,823
{\an8}The unknown DNA profile
collected from Jenny's body
518
00:24:50,906 --> 00:24:52,616
{\an8}and from all the others
519
00:24:52,700 --> 00:24:54,827
{\an8}belonged
to the deceased subject,
520
00:24:54,910 --> 00:24:58,789
{\an8}now confirmed to be
Robert Eugene Brashers,
521
00:24:58,872 --> 00:25:02,584
{\an8}a 40-year-old man
from Paragould, Arkansas.
522
00:25:03,877 --> 00:25:06,213
{\an8}DAN: All these cases
were solved in 2018.
523
00:25:06,296 --> 00:25:08,215
{\an8}-♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
-DAN: Now, for our case,
524
00:25:08,257 --> 00:25:10,092
I get all this information
from these guys,
525
00:25:10,134 --> 00:25:12,094
and I'm like, "All right,
this is probably our guy."
526
00:25:12,177 --> 00:25:16,598
I mean, Robert Brashers had
the same Y-STR, at 27 for 27,
527
00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,309
with the same make
and model gun as in Kentucky.
528
00:25:19,393 --> 00:25:20,436
And he's a serial killer,
529
00:25:20,477 --> 00:25:22,312
with very similar MO
as the yogurt shop.
530
00:25:22,396 --> 00:25:24,231
Like, "All right,
this is our guy,
531
00:25:24,314 --> 00:25:26,692
but we're not 100 percent."
532
00:25:26,775 --> 00:25:28,986
♪ (INTRIGUING MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
533
00:25:29,069 --> 00:25:31,113
DAN: What if this is
as good as it gets?
534
00:25:31,155 --> 00:25:32,531
How would I build--
535
00:25:32,614 --> 00:25:34,450
Essentially,
at the end of the day,
536
00:25:34,533 --> 00:25:37,286
it's still
a circumstantial case.
537
00:25:37,327 --> 00:25:40,622
We need to make sure
that we are 100 percent.
538
00:25:40,706 --> 00:25:43,500
Because somebody went
to death row, and, you know,
539
00:25:43,584 --> 00:25:45,669
we're basically overturning
34 years of work,
540
00:25:47,046 --> 00:25:48,922
do we have enough to call it?
541
00:25:51,341 --> 00:25:52,801
{\an8}LISA DAVIS: At this time,
I'd like to introduce
542
00:25:52,843 --> 00:25:53,969
{\an8}Detective Dan Jackson,
543
00:25:54,053 --> 00:25:55,554
{\an8}the lead investigator
of this case.
544
00:25:56,597 --> 00:25:58,015
{\an8}♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
545
00:25:58,098 --> 00:26:00,309
Good morning, everyone.
My name is Daniel Jackson.
546
00:26:00,392 --> 00:26:01,643
I'm the lead detective,
like she said,
547
00:26:01,685 --> 00:26:04,521
{\an8}and I've been
on the case since 2022.
548
00:26:04,605 --> 00:26:05,689
{\an8}Um...
549
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:07,649
{\an8}So, I'm gonna walk y'all through
550
00:26:07,733 --> 00:26:09,151
how we got
to where we are today.
551
00:26:09,234 --> 00:26:11,737
{\an8}I'll start with a brief overview
of the history of the case,
552
00:26:11,820 --> 00:26:14,198
and take you back
to December 6th, 1991.
553
00:26:14,990 --> 00:26:16,617
♪ (TENSE MUSIC BUILDS) ♪
554
00:26:16,700 --> 00:26:18,160
DAN: As you can see,
it appears to be
555
00:26:18,202 --> 00:26:20,287
just your everyday
middle America retail space
556
00:26:20,370 --> 00:26:21,371
in a strip mall.
557
00:26:23,582 --> 00:26:25,584
The customers would be there
in the front.
558
00:26:26,752 --> 00:26:29,046
And then in the back is
where the fire was started,
559
00:26:29,129 --> 00:26:31,131
and the girls' bodies
were discovered.
560
00:26:32,841 --> 00:26:35,094
Sarah, Eliza, and Jennifer
were together,
561
00:26:35,177 --> 00:26:38,180
and Amy was a little bit closer
to the front.
562
00:26:38,263 --> 00:26:40,057
There was evidence
of sexual assault.
563
00:26:40,140 --> 00:26:42,184
All four had been shot
in the head
564
00:26:42,267 --> 00:26:43,602
with a .22 caliber pistol.
565
00:26:43,685 --> 00:26:46,647
And Amy was also shot
with a .380 pistol.
566
00:26:46,730 --> 00:26:48,524
The original
ballistics report said
567
00:26:48,565 --> 00:26:50,776
that in all probability,
the weapon used
568
00:26:50,859 --> 00:26:54,363
was an AMT-brand
Backup model .380.
569
00:26:54,404 --> 00:26:56,782
That's an AMT
semi-automatic .380,
570
00:26:56,865 --> 00:26:58,575
and the model is a Backup model.
571
00:26:59,660 --> 00:27:01,078
There was one confession
572
00:27:01,161 --> 00:27:02,830
from a juvenile named
Maurice Pierce.
573
00:27:04,039 --> 00:27:05,541
Eight days after the murders,
574
00:27:05,582 --> 00:27:06,875
Pierce was at Northcross Mall
575
00:27:06,959 --> 00:27:09,128
with his friend named
Forrest Welborn.
576
00:27:09,211 --> 00:27:11,713
He was carrying a .22 pistol
in his waistband.
577
00:27:11,755 --> 00:27:13,549
{\an8}He was arrested and taken
to the homicide office
578
00:27:13,590 --> 00:27:15,801
where he was interrogated
by Detective Hector Polanco.
579
00:27:16,343 --> 00:27:19,888
{\an8}(OVER RECORDING)
580
00:27:20,597 --> 00:27:23,100
{\an8}In 1999, Pierce,
Forrest Welborn,
581
00:27:23,183 --> 00:27:24,935
{\an8}Robert Springsteen,
and Michael Scott
582
00:27:25,018 --> 00:27:26,562
were re-interrogated.
583
00:27:26,603 --> 00:27:27,855
They were able
to get confessions
584
00:27:27,896 --> 00:27:29,606
from Robert Springsteen
and Michael Scott.
585
00:27:29,690 --> 00:27:31,441
{\an8}MICHAEL SCOTT:
586
00:27:32,442 --> 00:27:33,944
{\an8}RON LARA:
587
00:27:34,027 --> 00:27:35,904
DAN: Michael Scott received
life without parole,
588
00:27:35,946 --> 00:27:38,198
and Robert Springsteen received
the death penalty.
589
00:27:38,282 --> 00:27:39,616
While they're appealing
their conviction,
590
00:27:39,700 --> 00:27:41,618
a landmark Supreme Court case
comes out.
591
00:27:41,702 --> 00:27:43,412
{\an8}The Texas Court
of Criminal Appeal granted
592
00:27:43,495 --> 00:27:45,080
{\an8}a new trial
for Springsteen and Scott.
593
00:27:45,122 --> 00:27:47,249
-(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
-No comment right now, please.
594
00:27:47,332 --> 00:27:48,959
DAN: By this time,
we had a new DNA technology
595
00:27:49,042 --> 00:27:50,586
called Y-STR testing.
596
00:27:50,669 --> 00:27:52,087
All four
of the original suspects
597
00:27:52,171 --> 00:27:53,922
-were excluded
from this profile.
-(CROWD CHEERING)
598
00:27:54,006 --> 00:27:56,133
-ONLOOKER: Welcome home, guys!
-DAN: The charges were dropped.
599
00:27:56,216 --> 00:27:57,551
Then over the next
several years,
600
00:27:57,634 --> 00:27:59,469
hundreds of reference samples
were collected.
601
00:27:59,553 --> 00:28:02,264
First responders, family,
friends, associates.
602
00:28:02,347 --> 00:28:04,766
I think we tested three
or four hundred different people
603
00:28:04,808 --> 00:28:07,060
in this case over the years.
604
00:28:07,102 --> 00:28:09,771
Just recently, we reached out
to all labs in the country
605
00:28:09,813 --> 00:28:11,481
that do Y-STR typing,
606
00:28:11,565 --> 00:28:12,816
and asked
if they could manually search
607
00:28:12,900 --> 00:28:14,484
against our unknown profile.
608
00:28:15,110 --> 00:28:16,320
We got a hit.
609
00:28:16,403 --> 00:28:19,239
A sexual assault
and murder from 1990
610
00:28:19,323 --> 00:28:21,408
out of Greenville,
South Carolina.
611
00:28:21,450 --> 00:28:23,493
This was the profile
that they had.
612
00:28:23,577 --> 00:28:25,287
"Robert Eugene Brashers."
613
00:28:25,329 --> 00:28:28,665
-(AUDIENCE MURMURING)
-♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
614
00:28:31,335 --> 00:28:34,421
His Y-STR has been found
in the following three places.
615
00:28:34,463 --> 00:28:35,631
This is three
sexual assault kits
616
00:28:35,672 --> 00:28:36,840
of those young girls.
617
00:28:45,974 --> 00:28:48,727
It's hard to be 100 percent
with just a Y-STR.
618
00:28:48,810 --> 00:28:50,479
So, we're trying to figure out
how to get from,
619
00:28:50,520 --> 00:28:52,397
"We're pretty sure it's him"
to, "We know it's him."
620
00:28:53,357 --> 00:28:54,483
We start researching Brashers,
621
00:28:54,566 --> 00:28:56,652
figure out what he's doing
around this time, where he's at.
622
00:28:56,735 --> 00:28:58,654
{\an8}December 8th, 1991,
623
00:28:58,737 --> 00:29:00,906
{\an8}less than 48 hours
after yogurt shop,
624
00:29:00,989 --> 00:29:03,659
{\an8}Robert Brashers is stopped
at a Border Patrol checkpoint
625
00:29:03,700 --> 00:29:06,870
{\an8}going westbound on I-10
between El Paso and Las Cruces.
626
00:29:07,704 --> 00:29:09,206
It was a random cold stop,
627
00:29:09,289 --> 00:29:10,916
just like any time you go
through a border checkpoint,
628
00:29:10,999 --> 00:29:13,210
except the Border Patrol agent
realized something was up.
629
00:29:13,293 --> 00:29:15,337
He didn't like the way
Mr. Brashers was answering,
630
00:29:15,379 --> 00:29:16,463
ran his plate, and it showed it
631
00:29:16,546 --> 00:29:18,632
to be a stolen car
out of Georgia.
632
00:29:18,715 --> 00:29:20,801
It was-- had been stolen
on November 29th.
633
00:29:21,927 --> 00:29:22,928
During this interaction,
634
00:29:23,011 --> 00:29:24,888
he was also in possession
of a .380 pistol.
635
00:29:24,972 --> 00:29:26,348
(AUDIENCE MURMURING)
636
00:29:26,431 --> 00:29:30,519
DAN: That .380 pistol
was an AMT Backup model.
637
00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,312
It was the same make and model
identified by ballistics
638
00:29:32,396 --> 00:29:34,314
as the weapon used
in the yogurt shop.
639
00:29:35,607 --> 00:29:37,192
So, he was westbound,
leaving Texas
640
00:29:37,276 --> 00:29:39,695
with an AMT .380 Backup model
641
00:29:39,736 --> 00:29:41,238
less than 48 hours later.
642
00:29:41,321 --> 00:29:43,699
♪ (SUSPENSEFUL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
643
00:29:43,740 --> 00:29:46,743
So, we took additional items
to DNA Labs International.
644
00:29:46,827 --> 00:29:49,871
Now, these items have been
previously tested in years past.
645
00:29:49,913 --> 00:29:51,206
They were preserved of,
646
00:29:51,290 --> 00:29:53,417
"Maybe someday
we could do something with this,
647
00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:56,086
but we can't today,
we'd just be wasting the DNA."
648
00:29:56,169 --> 00:29:57,421
We don't think
we're ever gonna be able
649
00:29:57,504 --> 00:30:00,048
to get enough DNA
for a CODIS upload.
650
00:30:00,090 --> 00:30:03,218
{\an8}Well, we don't necessarily need
to upload to search.
651
00:30:03,302 --> 00:30:05,137
{\an8}We just need enough DNA
to compare.
652
00:30:05,220 --> 00:30:07,681
{\an8}So, we need enough STR markers
to do a direct comparison
653
00:30:07,764 --> 00:30:10,017
{\an8}from our crime scene
to Robert Brashers.
654
00:30:10,892 --> 00:30:12,227
{\an8}And this was gonna be it.
655
00:30:12,269 --> 00:30:14,146
We were pushing all of our chips
on the table with this.
656
00:30:14,229 --> 00:30:15,731
This was gonna be
the last shot effort.
657
00:30:15,772 --> 00:30:17,691
But we were pretty confident
with the technology
658
00:30:17,774 --> 00:30:20,652
and the circumstances
that this was gonna be pay dirt.
659
00:30:22,696 --> 00:30:25,574
One of the things we retested
was Amy's fingernail clippings
660
00:30:25,657 --> 00:30:27,242
from the autopsy.
661
00:30:27,284 --> 00:30:28,910
They were able
to get quite a bit of DNA
662
00:30:28,952 --> 00:30:30,078
out of Amy's
fingernail clippings,
663
00:30:30,162 --> 00:30:31,747
and it was directly compared
to Brashers,
664
00:30:31,788 --> 00:30:34,791
and it matched, so that it's
two-and-a-half million to one
665
00:30:34,875 --> 00:30:36,251
that it's likely
Robert Brashers'
666
00:30:36,335 --> 00:30:37,586
underneath Amy's fingernails
667
00:30:37,669 --> 00:30:39,254
than it is
to an unknown individual.
668
00:30:39,296 --> 00:30:42,090
♪ (SOMBER STRING
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
669
00:30:42,174 --> 00:30:43,592
DAN: At this point,
there's no physical evidence
670
00:30:43,633 --> 00:30:45,927
that links Springsteen,
Scott, Pierce, or Welborn
671
00:30:45,969 --> 00:30:48,096
to the yogurt shop crime scene.
There's no evidence
672
00:30:48,138 --> 00:30:49,431
that connects
the previous four suspects
673
00:30:49,514 --> 00:30:51,141
with Robert Eugene Brashers
either.
674
00:30:51,224 --> 00:30:53,435
The surviving victims
of Brashers' violence
675
00:30:53,518 --> 00:30:55,937
always reported he was alone
when he acted.
676
00:30:55,979 --> 00:30:57,773
He never is known
to have an accomplice.
677
00:30:57,856 --> 00:30:59,983
(AUDIENCE MURMURING)
678
00:31:00,067 --> 00:31:01,651
DAN: Now, I just wanna reiterate
679
00:31:01,735 --> 00:31:04,446
that this is
a combination of technology,
680
00:31:04,529 --> 00:31:06,239
good police work
from multiple agencies
681
00:31:06,323 --> 00:31:08,367
and cooperation, and timing.
682
00:31:08,450 --> 00:31:12,120
This is something that could not
have happened until 2025.
683
00:31:12,204 --> 00:31:15,332
And I'm sorry that it took
34 years for us to get here,
684
00:31:15,415 --> 00:31:19,836
but we're here now...
and, you know...
685
00:31:21,380 --> 00:31:23,673
Amy's final moments
on this Earth
686
00:31:23,757 --> 00:31:25,467
were to solve this case for us.
687
00:31:25,509 --> 00:31:27,177
It's because
of her fighting back.
688
00:31:27,677 --> 00:31:29,304
T-- Thank you.
689
00:31:29,346 --> 00:31:33,600
-(AUDIENCE MURMURING)
-♪ (SENTIMENTAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
690
00:31:51,076 --> 00:31:55,914
Have we been able to explain
why Brashers was here in Austin?
691
00:31:55,997 --> 00:31:57,999
No, we don't know
why he was in Austin.
692
00:31:58,041 --> 00:31:59,501
We have found no connection.
693
00:31:59,543 --> 00:32:01,711
We're still searching
for that answer.
694
00:32:01,795 --> 00:32:03,672
Just about how techniques
and technology
695
00:32:03,713 --> 00:32:04,756
has changed since then
696
00:32:04,840 --> 00:32:06,508
to make sure we're not
in a situation like this
697
00:32:06,550 --> 00:32:09,553
where four people
get wrongly accused early on,
698
00:32:09,636 --> 00:32:10,929
and then we find, you know,
699
00:32:11,012 --> 00:32:13,265
a potential real suspect
decades later.
700
00:32:13,348 --> 00:32:15,809
{\an8}No cases are going to be closed
701
00:32:15,892 --> 00:32:18,353
{\an8}solely based off of confession.
We need other evidence for that.
702
00:32:18,437 --> 00:32:19,646
{\an8}And so that has changed,
703
00:32:19,688 --> 00:32:21,356
{\an8}and things have changed
since then.
704
00:32:21,398 --> 00:32:22,816
I took the approach of,
705
00:32:22,899 --> 00:32:24,276
"I'm not gonna listen
to the confessions."
706
00:32:24,359 --> 00:32:25,861
I've never listened to them.
707
00:32:25,944 --> 00:32:28,029
I've never read 'em,
the transcripts.
708
00:32:28,071 --> 00:32:30,699
And the first time
I heard any footage
709
00:32:30,740 --> 00:32:33,535
from the confessions
was the HBO documentary.
710
00:32:33,618 --> 00:32:36,079
Because my point of view
is I don't know,
711
00:32:36,163 --> 00:32:38,081
but I'll go
where the evidence leads me.
712
00:32:39,833 --> 00:32:42,752
Are there likely other cases
like this in Texas?
713
00:32:42,836 --> 00:32:45,130
{\an8}I mean, he's already been
in South Carolina,
714
00:32:45,213 --> 00:32:46,548
{\an8}Tennessee, Missouri.
715
00:32:46,590 --> 00:32:49,092
{\an8}Is it likely,
and are you looking for that?
716
00:32:49,176 --> 00:32:50,510
DAN:
So, I would say it is likely
717
00:32:50,594 --> 00:32:51,928
there are other victims
out there,
718
00:32:52,012 --> 00:32:54,389
because of what we know of him,
when he was not in prison,
719
00:32:54,431 --> 00:32:56,057
he was committing
heinous crimes.
720
00:32:56,099 --> 00:32:57,893
Last week,
we knew of three murders.
721
00:32:57,976 --> 00:32:59,102
This week, we know of eight.
722
00:32:59,186 --> 00:33:00,604
To say there's not
a nine or ten,
723
00:33:00,687 --> 00:33:03,148
I'm sure there are,
and we will be working on that.
724
00:33:03,231 --> 00:33:05,025
Do you believe
that justice has been served,
725
00:33:05,108 --> 00:33:06,776
or there's still
some more work to go?
726
00:33:15,202 --> 00:33:17,579
-♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
-(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
727
00:33:17,662 --> 00:33:19,581
MIKE GRAHAM: New analysis saying
728
00:33:19,623 --> 00:33:23,460
the .380 shell casing
found at the murder scene
729
00:33:23,543 --> 00:33:25,712
is a big part
of this breakthrough.
730
00:33:25,795 --> 00:33:28,173
It's linked to a gun
that Brashers had
731
00:33:28,256 --> 00:33:30,759
after a chase with authorities
near El Paso.
732
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:32,969
-(INAUDIBLE DIALOGUE)
-GRAHAM: There is no
DNA evidence that links
733
00:33:33,053 --> 00:33:35,096
any of those original suspects
to the murders.
734
00:33:35,180 --> 00:33:36,348
ERIN MORIARTY:
You're feeling pretty good
735
00:33:36,431 --> 00:33:37,933
{\an8}about putting
that shirt back on.
736
00:33:38,016 --> 00:33:41,269
{\an8}I did. I didn't get it out
in 1999.
737
00:33:41,353 --> 00:33:43,021
{\an8}I heard the words
I wanted to hear.
738
00:33:43,104 --> 00:33:45,732
-ERIN: You did?
-Yeah, that...
739
00:33:46,816 --> 00:33:49,778
the last four weren't involved.
740
00:33:49,861 --> 00:33:52,656
It ain't about the confessions,
it's about the evidence.
741
00:33:52,739 --> 00:33:55,116
But I lived to see this day.
742
00:33:55,158 --> 00:33:57,285
♪ (SOFT MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
743
00:33:57,369 --> 00:34:00,747
We are so happy
that what we did there...
744
00:34:00,830 --> 00:34:02,123
-Yeah.
-...helped you guys,
745
00:34:02,165 --> 00:34:03,166
get you some answers.
746
00:34:03,250 --> 00:34:05,335
{\an8}What we get coming out
of this is,
747
00:34:05,418 --> 00:34:07,629
{\an8}just like when we solved
our cases,
748
00:34:07,671 --> 00:34:09,130
{\an8}the team that came out of that,
749
00:34:09,214 --> 00:34:11,550
{\an8}and now, Austin PD
is part of that team.
750
00:34:11,633 --> 00:34:13,134
{\an8}So, when the next one comes up,
751
00:34:13,218 --> 00:34:15,136
-and I think
there'll be a next one.
-Yeah.
752
00:34:15,220 --> 00:34:16,221
-Yes, there will be.
-Good.
753
00:34:16,304 --> 00:34:18,515
And this team
will carry forward,
754
00:34:18,598 --> 00:34:19,558
and help those people.
755
00:34:19,641 --> 00:34:21,560
So, it just keeps
building momentum.
756
00:34:22,852 --> 00:34:24,354
CARLOS GARCIA:
It's a strange feeling.
757
00:34:25,146 --> 00:34:26,690
It's a certain sadness.
758
00:34:29,150 --> 00:34:32,445
{\an8}The loss never goes away
for those families.
759
00:34:33,196 --> 00:34:35,198
You also need to now look at
760
00:34:35,282 --> 00:34:38,910
how does such a horrific
investigative failure occur.
761
00:34:39,953 --> 00:34:42,247
These families have suffered
because of that.
762
00:34:42,330 --> 00:34:44,499
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
763
00:34:44,541 --> 00:34:46,042
CARLOS: My other thought is that
764
00:34:46,126 --> 00:34:48,795
there's actually
eight victims here.
765
00:34:48,878 --> 00:34:51,423
There's eight victims,
and another one of those
766
00:34:51,506 --> 00:34:53,508
lost his life, Maurice Pierce.
767
00:34:53,592 --> 00:34:55,635
You know, I just hope
there's-- a day comes
768
00:34:55,719 --> 00:34:57,053
when there's
another press conference
769
00:34:57,137 --> 00:34:59,848
when they put the pictures
of those four boys,
770
00:34:59,931 --> 00:35:02,517
and explain how they're gonna
compensate them.
771
00:35:02,559 --> 00:35:04,644
(CHATTER FADES)
772
00:35:04,728 --> 00:35:07,731
♪ (SOMBER INSTRUMENTAL
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
773
00:35:22,871 --> 00:35:26,416
JONES: There's not a whole lot
that's the same from 1991.
774
00:35:30,003 --> 00:35:32,130
Jeez, more condos.
775
00:35:35,425 --> 00:35:36,760
Everything's changed.
776
00:35:39,971 --> 00:35:41,222
Well, I feel like...
777
00:35:42,223 --> 00:35:45,185
all of us there
at the original crime scene...
778
00:35:47,979 --> 00:35:49,814
our efforts were validated.
779
00:35:51,983 --> 00:35:53,735
We didn't process the scene
780
00:35:53,777 --> 00:35:58,031
according to 2000
or 2010 standards.
781
00:35:58,114 --> 00:36:01,117
We processed it
to 1991 standards,
782
00:36:01,701 --> 00:36:03,119
and went beyond that.
783
00:36:03,870 --> 00:36:05,747
We did the best we could do
784
00:36:05,789 --> 00:36:08,249
based on what we had
in place then.
785
00:36:09,292 --> 00:36:11,086
(SIGHS)
786
00:36:11,127 --> 00:36:13,421
♪ (SOMBER INSTRUMENTAL
MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪
787
00:36:13,463 --> 00:36:16,257
JONES: Turns out, maybe
we could have solved it
788
00:36:16,299 --> 00:36:20,845
if Border Patrol had read
the teletype we sent out.
789
00:36:20,929 --> 00:36:23,431
We said we were looking
for a .22,
790
00:36:23,473 --> 00:36:27,602
and an AMT .380 Backup.
791
00:36:28,478 --> 00:36:30,689
But it just wasn't meant to be,
I guess.
792
00:36:36,194 --> 00:36:39,197
-♪ (MUSIC TURNS OMINOUS) ♪
-(INAUDIBLE DIALOGUE)
793
00:36:40,156 --> 00:36:41,282
BOB: I went numb.
794
00:36:42,992 --> 00:36:44,077
It was shocking.
795
00:36:45,870 --> 00:36:47,247
A serial killer, really?
796
00:36:48,206 --> 00:36:49,207
{\an8}It was...
797
00:36:50,875 --> 00:36:54,087
{\an8}it was still
a little hard to realize.
798
00:36:54,170 --> 00:36:55,338
Pure evil.
799
00:36:58,258 --> 00:36:59,342
He went in there.
800
00:37:00,176 --> 00:37:01,970
His concern was no money.
801
00:37:02,011 --> 00:37:05,724
He was not on drugs.
He was not on alcohol.
802
00:37:05,807 --> 00:37:09,310
He was in, more or less,
his right mind, and...
803
00:37:11,020 --> 00:37:12,522
he just-- he just liked to kill.
804
00:37:13,690 --> 00:37:16,818
{\an8}I understood a robbery
going bad possibly,
805
00:37:16,860 --> 00:37:18,486
{\an8}something like that,
806
00:37:18,528 --> 00:37:21,156
{\an8}but for someone to go in
807
00:37:21,239 --> 00:37:23,950
with that mindset
is hard for me to...
808
00:37:24,534 --> 00:37:25,994
to accept...
809
00:37:26,035 --> 00:37:28,496
that we have people like that.
810
00:37:28,538 --> 00:37:29,914
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
811
00:37:37,547 --> 00:37:38,840
MIKE WARE: On February the 19th,
812
00:37:38,923 --> 00:37:40,425
the judge has set a hearing.
813
00:37:40,967 --> 00:37:43,136
We'll be filing a motion
814
00:37:43,219 --> 00:37:46,222
that the state will join in
815
00:37:46,306 --> 00:37:50,560
{\an8}to declare
that he is actually innocent,
816
00:37:50,643 --> 00:37:52,228
{\an8}and that he is exonerated,
817
00:37:52,312 --> 00:37:54,522
{\an8}and the judge
will officially declare that
818
00:37:54,606 --> 00:37:56,941
{\an8}and sign an order
reflecting all that.
819
00:37:57,025 --> 00:38:01,738
{\an8}Uh, we will support that
with evidence,
820
00:38:01,821 --> 00:38:03,615
{\an8}making it very clear
to the world
821
00:38:03,698 --> 00:38:05,533
{\an8}and for the record,
they're innocent,
822
00:38:05,575 --> 00:38:08,953
{\an8}and that that is true not just
beyond a reasonable doubt,
823
00:38:09,037 --> 00:38:10,497
but to a moral certainty.
824
00:38:11,748 --> 00:38:13,374
Um...
825
00:38:13,416 --> 00:38:16,002
I would like for it to be
a part of this hearing
826
00:38:16,085 --> 00:38:17,879
of what went wrong.
827
00:38:17,962 --> 00:38:20,840
An airplane crashes,
you know, the FFA moves in
828
00:38:20,924 --> 00:38:22,884
and does
an extensive investigation.
829
00:38:22,926 --> 00:38:24,636
But I think
this is analogous to that.
830
00:38:24,719 --> 00:38:29,557
This whole horrible,
tragic scenario, event...
831
00:38:29,599 --> 00:38:34,854
has been like a--
a horrible airplane crash.
832
00:38:34,938 --> 00:38:39,609
There's a huge injustice here
that needs to be corrected.
833
00:38:41,903 --> 00:38:44,864
♪ (EMOTIONAL INSTRUMENTAL
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
834
00:38:44,948 --> 00:38:46,741
KIMBERLI PIERCE:
We met at Lamar Middle School.
835
00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:49,327
We were 13 and 14.
836
00:38:50,370 --> 00:38:53,289
We dated, really, ever since.
837
00:38:56,751 --> 00:38:58,211
You know, we had her young.
838
00:38:59,963 --> 00:39:03,174
We got married
when we were 21 and 22.
839
00:39:05,343 --> 00:39:08,054
Shortly after that, that's
when all of this happened.
840
00:39:08,137 --> 00:39:10,765
I was 23 and he was 24
when he got picked up.
841
00:39:10,849 --> 00:39:12,642
-(POLICE SIREN WAILING)
-(INDISTINCT RADIO CHATTER)
842
00:39:12,725 --> 00:39:15,353
-(CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING)
-KIMBERLI: October 6th, 1999.
843
00:39:15,436 --> 00:39:16,771
They had SWAT there.
844
00:39:16,813 --> 00:39:19,274
I was basically in a nightgown
when I came out,
845
00:39:19,357 --> 00:39:20,817
'cause I heard
all the commotion.
846
00:39:20,900 --> 00:39:21,985
REPORTER 1:
After nearly eight years,
847
00:39:22,068 --> 00:39:23,444
police have arrested
four suspects.
848
00:39:23,486 --> 00:39:25,488
{\an8}-KIMBERLI:
It just didn't seem real.
-REPORTER 2: Maurice Pierce...
849
00:39:25,572 --> 00:39:28,283
{\an8}You really think
that if there's no evidence,
850
00:39:28,366 --> 00:39:29,826
this doesn't happen.
851
00:39:29,909 --> 00:39:31,870
REPORTER 3:
Pierce's wife didn't wanna talk.
852
00:39:31,953 --> 00:39:34,289
-REPORTER 4: About your husband?
About your husband?
-No comment. No comment.
853
00:39:34,330 --> 00:39:35,790
REPORTER 5:
Their investigation has ended...
854
00:39:35,874 --> 00:39:37,083
KIMBERLI: I sent her to school.
855
00:39:37,166 --> 00:39:40,253
Her principal called me,
because the news showed up
856
00:39:40,336 --> 00:39:42,714
at her school,
her elementary school.
857
00:39:42,797 --> 00:39:46,175
So, I knew then I needed
to not be sending her to school.
858
00:39:46,259 --> 00:39:49,470
And then everything changed.
I had to be available for court.
859
00:39:49,554 --> 00:39:51,514
I couldn't really work.
860
00:39:51,598 --> 00:39:53,308
INTERVIEWEE:
We can hopefully
finally begin...
861
00:39:53,391 --> 00:39:55,852
KIMBERLI: I really think that
he thought he would go,
862
00:39:55,935 --> 00:39:58,313
and they would let him out.
863
00:39:58,396 --> 00:40:01,691
He wouldn't be spending
three and a half years in jail
864
00:40:01,774 --> 00:40:03,067
waiting on trial.
865
00:40:03,151 --> 00:40:04,652
♪ (MUSIC TURNS TENSE) ♪
866
00:40:04,736 --> 00:40:06,696
KIMBERLI: They kept him
in solitary confinement
867
00:40:06,779 --> 00:40:07,739
for two years.
868
00:40:07,822 --> 00:40:10,283
So, he was out one hour a day,
869
00:40:10,366 --> 00:40:11,993
and that's when
he would call me.
870
00:40:12,035 --> 00:40:13,369
He didn't see sunlight
871
00:40:13,453 --> 00:40:15,663
except for when he got
to go to court.
872
00:40:16,748 --> 00:40:19,375
The light in his eyes went away.
873
00:40:19,459 --> 00:40:22,545
They changed colors,
and they didn't ever go back.
874
00:40:22,629 --> 00:40:25,214
They kind of were
a dull gray to me.
875
00:40:25,298 --> 00:40:28,426
He used to have
really bright, pretty blue eyes.
876
00:40:28,509 --> 00:40:31,846
It was just not the same.
He was not the same.
877
00:40:32,680 --> 00:40:34,390
She lost her childhood
878
00:40:34,474 --> 00:40:37,018
at the age of seven
when her dad got picked up.
879
00:40:37,060 --> 00:40:39,312
Even she changed.
880
00:40:39,395 --> 00:40:40,688
REPORTER: Are you excited
to see your daughter?
881
00:40:40,772 --> 00:40:41,773
MAURICE PIERCE:
When I was arrested,
882
00:40:41,856 --> 00:40:43,274
I proclaimed that I was innocent
883
00:40:43,358 --> 00:40:45,068
of all the charges
that were filed against me,
884
00:40:45,151 --> 00:40:47,362
and I am standing here today
with that same proclamation.
885
00:40:47,445 --> 00:40:48,988
MARISA PIERCE:
He didn't get to see this day.
886
00:40:49,072 --> 00:40:50,740
-♪ (SOMBER PIANO
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
-He didn't get to...
887
00:40:50,823 --> 00:40:54,202
let the world know
that he was innocent all along.
888
00:40:54,285 --> 00:40:55,703
RONNIE EARLE: We do not have
the evidence
889
00:40:55,787 --> 00:40:57,330
to convict him right now,
890
00:40:57,413 --> 00:40:58,831
but life is long.
891
00:40:58,873 --> 00:41:01,209
MARISA: In the news,
it's like a blip,
"Oh, he was in for three years."
892
00:41:01,250 --> 00:41:04,170
But it was constant darkness,
893
00:41:04,253 --> 00:41:06,089
and then he got out,
894
00:41:06,172 --> 00:41:09,801
and it was just
a constant battle of the cloud,
895
00:41:09,884 --> 00:41:11,886
and of overcoming, and...
896
00:41:11,928 --> 00:41:13,054
{\an8}...ask for dismissal
of the cases
897
00:41:13,137 --> 00:41:15,014
{\an8}pending further investigation.
898
00:41:21,604 --> 00:41:25,024
{\an8}Our focus continues
on our suspects at hand.
899
00:41:25,108 --> 00:41:27,068
{\an8}There is no question
that these suspects
900
00:41:27,151 --> 00:41:30,238
{\an8}are still the focus
of our investigation.
901
00:41:30,321 --> 00:41:32,073
{\an8}KIMBERLI:
To have to live with that,
902
00:41:32,115 --> 00:41:33,574
I mean,
that stayed on his record,
903
00:41:33,658 --> 00:41:37,578
pending further investigation
for four murders.
904
00:41:37,620 --> 00:41:39,914
♪ (DARK PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
905
00:41:39,956 --> 00:41:43,751
I really feel like
they went after him,
906
00:41:43,835 --> 00:41:45,461
and just never let up.
907
00:41:45,545 --> 00:41:47,672
(POLICE SIRENS WAILING)
908
00:41:47,755 --> 00:41:50,967
-KIMBERLI: He was always
very scared of the police.
-(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
909
00:41:51,050 --> 00:41:52,760
KIMBERLI: He thought they were
always gonna get him
910
00:41:52,802 --> 00:41:54,429
for these murders.
911
00:41:54,512 --> 00:41:56,681
And they did.
In the end, they did.
912
00:41:56,764 --> 00:41:58,891
{\an8}POLICE OFFICER:
The officer managed to fire
913
00:41:58,975 --> 00:42:01,185
{\an8}a single round
that did strike the suspect.
914
00:42:01,269 --> 00:42:05,732
{\an8}-It just doesn't feel like
it's real justice.
-♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
915
00:42:05,773 --> 00:42:09,944
And I wanna be respectful
to everybody, but...
916
00:42:11,070 --> 00:42:13,031
my dad will never come back.
917
00:42:14,323 --> 00:42:17,493
It's a little too late...
for him.
918
00:42:23,041 --> 00:42:27,045
(INDISTINCT CHATTER, LAUGHTER)
919
00:42:27,128 --> 00:42:28,796
-CHILD: Look, there's Eliza.
-(AUCTIONEER
BID CALLING RAPIDLY)
920
00:42:28,880 --> 00:42:31,466
{\an8}...seventy-five, all done.
Seven seventy-five, 375.
921
00:42:31,549 --> 00:42:33,301
{\an8}Three-fifty...
(CONTINUES RAPID BID CALLING)
922
00:42:33,384 --> 00:42:37,305
{\an8}To me, FFA is a place...
923
00:42:37,388 --> 00:42:38,556
{\an8}Well, it...
924
00:42:38,639 --> 00:42:40,725
♪ (SENTIMENTAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
925
00:42:40,808 --> 00:42:42,310
BOB: Right now, I see her on
926
00:42:42,393 --> 00:42:44,103
her little
cutting horse stallion,
927
00:42:44,187 --> 00:42:45,188
cutting a cow...
928
00:42:45,938 --> 00:42:47,023
on a horse.
929
00:42:52,361 --> 00:42:54,739
{\an8}PAM:
Those girls are still with us.
930
00:42:56,657 --> 00:42:58,076
-GIRL: Hi!
-MAN: Hi!
931
00:42:58,159 --> 00:42:59,827
-Hi! (BLOWS KISS)
-(MAN SPEAKING INDISTINCTLY)
932
00:42:59,869 --> 00:43:01,662
BARBARA: My memories of them,
933
00:43:01,746 --> 00:43:03,414
they fade, you know.
934
00:43:03,498 --> 00:43:05,416
They've been gone so long.
935
00:43:06,626 --> 00:43:08,294
But they'll always be
little girls to me.
936
00:43:08,377 --> 00:43:12,799
I still laugh about things
that they said or did, and...
937
00:43:12,882 --> 00:43:16,010
-they were funny.
-(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
938
00:43:16,886 --> 00:43:22,225
{\an8}MARGARET:
939
00:43:25,019 --> 00:43:27,188
{\an8}-♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
-(INHALES SHARPLY)
940
00:43:27,271 --> 00:43:29,398
No, I'm not counting
the days anymore.
941
00:43:30,441 --> 00:43:31,734
It's-- It's over.
942
00:43:33,986 --> 00:43:40,034
{\an8}MARGARET:
943
00:43:40,076 --> 00:43:41,953
{\an8}-(BREATHES SHAKILY)
-♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING)
944
00:43:42,036 --> 00:43:43,704
I don't know, it's...
945
00:43:43,788 --> 00:43:47,250
I'm still such
in kind of a numb feeling.
946
00:43:47,333 --> 00:43:50,211
I think the certainty,
just knowing,
947
00:43:50,253 --> 00:43:52,463
is-- does help me, yes.
948
00:43:52,964 --> 00:43:54,549
Um...
949
00:43:54,632 --> 00:43:58,052
Even... There's evidence,
hard evidence,
950
00:43:58,136 --> 00:44:02,390
where before we didn't have
all that hard evidence
951
00:44:02,431 --> 00:44:04,934
to work off of.
952
00:44:05,017 --> 00:44:09,272
And to me, that is a big factor,
you know?
953
00:44:10,606 --> 00:44:11,649
It's the end.
954
00:44:12,900 --> 00:44:13,985
The end of wondering.
955
00:44:15,027 --> 00:44:16,028
Like, if you're walking around,
956
00:44:16,112 --> 00:44:18,364
{\an8}like, with your shoulders
to your ears
957
00:44:18,447 --> 00:44:20,908
{\an8}for 30 years, all of a sudden,
you get to relax.
958
00:44:20,992 --> 00:44:22,451
{\an8}That's a different feeling.
959
00:44:22,535 --> 00:44:24,745
I guess the stress
or the wonderment,
960
00:44:25,288 --> 00:44:26,622
the "I don't know..."
961
00:44:27,331 --> 00:44:28,583
is no more.
962
00:44:29,458 --> 00:44:32,920
I was still in shock
for a day or two,
963
00:44:33,004 --> 00:44:34,797
and it was probably a week later
964
00:44:34,881 --> 00:44:37,133
that I finally dealt
with the fact
965
00:44:37,216 --> 00:44:40,386
that my heart
was opened up more,
966
00:44:40,469 --> 00:44:41,762
and I didn't know it was closed.
967
00:44:41,846 --> 00:44:43,347
I thought I had done
a really good job
968
00:44:43,431 --> 00:44:45,600
of working through this,
and getting through this,
969
00:44:45,683 --> 00:44:48,060
but this changed my heart,
970
00:44:48,644 --> 00:44:49,645
and I...
971
00:44:50,688 --> 00:44:52,315
I can't tell you how grateful.
972
00:44:53,107 --> 00:44:54,859
Grateful. So much gratitude.
973
00:44:54,942 --> 00:44:57,778
I wasn't expecting that
at all from this--
974
00:44:57,820 --> 00:44:59,488
Uh, but I got that.
975
00:45:00,740 --> 00:45:01,991
That's so good.
976
00:45:02,074 --> 00:45:03,951
Such a good thing to get,
977
00:45:03,993 --> 00:45:06,204
'cause so many people
never get that.
978
00:45:07,163 --> 00:45:10,291
But we-- we did.
We got the closure.
979
00:45:10,333 --> 00:45:13,419
That terrible "closure" word
that nobody likes to use.
980
00:45:13,502 --> 00:45:15,421
And we got it.
981
00:45:15,504 --> 00:45:17,590
We got that and...
982
00:45:18,549 --> 00:45:22,678
That's... My life is good.
My life is good.
983
00:45:22,762 --> 00:45:25,097
♪ (SOMBER MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪
984
00:45:27,225 --> 00:45:29,143
Every year, then I've gone out,
985
00:45:29,227 --> 00:45:30,811
and I've taken care
of the girls' headstones.
986
00:45:30,853 --> 00:45:32,688
I'm going to this year.
987
00:45:32,772 --> 00:45:34,690
But I'm so at peace
that I'm ready...
988
00:45:36,108 --> 00:45:37,693
I'm ready to go on with my life,
989
00:45:38,527 --> 00:45:39,987
and have some fun,
990
00:45:40,071 --> 00:45:41,906
and do some things
that I wanna do.
991
00:45:42,865 --> 00:45:44,700
And they're so at peace,
it just...
992
00:45:44,784 --> 00:45:46,244
I can just feel Amy...
993
00:45:47,620 --> 00:45:49,330
wanting me to do that.
994
00:45:49,372 --> 00:45:51,457
I may not take care
of those gravesites
995
00:45:51,540 --> 00:45:53,501
as much as I used to,
996
00:45:53,584 --> 00:45:55,544
because they're on
their own now.
997
00:45:57,338 --> 00:45:59,382
(CLICKS TONGUE)
And I feel they're at peace.
998
00:46:00,883 --> 00:46:02,843
I didn't know how angry I was.
999
00:46:02,927 --> 00:46:05,179
And I realized, like,
"Damn, I've been...
1000
00:46:06,055 --> 00:46:08,182
I've been pissed
for a long, long time,
1001
00:46:08,224 --> 00:46:09,350
and didn't realize it."
1002
00:46:09,433 --> 00:46:11,227
I looked at my kids different,
looked at my wife different.
1003
00:46:11,310 --> 00:46:14,939
Looked-- Everything I looked at
was different.
1004
00:46:15,022 --> 00:46:16,524
I guess I'm gonna have
to find something else
1005
00:46:16,565 --> 00:46:18,776
to worry about. (CHUCKLES)
1006
00:46:18,859 --> 00:46:20,152
It's just... (EXHALES)
1007
00:46:20,820 --> 00:46:21,904
I-- I just...
1008
00:46:22,822 --> 00:46:24,115
You can breathe again...
1009
00:46:25,074 --> 00:46:26,951
because we know the truth now.
1010
00:46:28,869 --> 00:46:33,749
{\an8}MARGARET:
1011
00:46:35,418 --> 00:46:37,795
{\an8}Because of the evidence,
1012
00:46:38,421 --> 00:46:39,505
and we know...
1013
00:46:42,591 --> 00:46:43,759
And we know.
1014
00:46:44,593 --> 00:46:48,347
{\an8}MARGARET:
1015
00:46:51,434 --> 00:46:54,270
{\an8}I don't understand it either...
(CHUCKLES) ...to be honest.
1016
00:46:54,854 --> 00:46:57,815
{\an8}MARGARET:
1017
00:46:57,898 --> 00:47:00,526
{\an8}No. I mean...
Ooh, that's cold, isn't it?
1018
00:47:00,609 --> 00:47:02,778
No, I do that
for my own self-protection.
1019
00:47:02,862 --> 00:47:06,449
I don't wanna get involved
in the emotional trauma
1020
00:47:06,532 --> 00:47:07,992
of what they went through.
1021
00:47:08,075 --> 00:47:10,411
I've already been through a lot,
I don't wanna take that on.
1022
00:47:10,494 --> 00:47:13,914
And I mean,
that's a horrible thing.
1023
00:47:13,998 --> 00:47:15,458
What happened
to them was horrible.
1024
00:47:15,541 --> 00:47:19,879
{\an8}MARGARET:
1025
00:47:19,962 --> 00:47:21,672
{\an8}No. They-- I...
1026
00:47:22,715 --> 00:47:25,593
They are not part
of this case any longer.
1027
00:47:26,510 --> 00:47:27,887
I don't go there.
1028
00:47:27,928 --> 00:47:31,474
I mean, I know that
they suffered, you know?
1029
00:47:32,099 --> 00:47:34,977
But my suffering is...
1030
00:47:35,061 --> 00:47:36,937
is totally different
than theirs,
1031
00:47:36,979 --> 00:47:41,108
and I have to deal
with my pain, and...
1032
00:47:41,192 --> 00:47:43,402
♪ (SOMBER MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪
1033
00:47:43,486 --> 00:47:44,570
I really don't think about it.
1034
00:47:44,653 --> 00:47:46,822
I mean, every now and then,
it's like, you know,
1035
00:47:47,490 --> 00:47:48,657
kinda got a raw deal.
1036
00:47:50,868 --> 00:47:54,288
But... two confessed,
went to prison.
1037
00:47:54,330 --> 00:47:56,290
Two didn't confess,
did not go to prison.
1038
00:47:56,374 --> 00:47:58,584
So, in my mind,
the two that did...
1039
00:47:59,835 --> 00:48:01,003
they didn't help themselves.
1040
00:48:01,087 --> 00:48:02,296
I don't know, it's just--
1041
00:48:02,338 --> 00:48:03,756
I haven't got to them yet.
1042
00:48:03,839 --> 00:48:05,383
When it all comes down, and...
1043
00:48:06,842 --> 00:48:07,968
that it wasn't them,
1044
00:48:08,052 --> 00:48:09,345
and the courts say
it wasn't them,
1045
00:48:09,428 --> 00:48:11,514
and it's finalized...
1046
00:48:12,390 --> 00:48:14,517
they didn't--
Well, I can't say that.
1047
00:48:14,600 --> 00:48:15,643
{\an8}MARGARET:
1048
00:48:15,726 --> 00:48:17,478
{\an8}I was gonna say they didn't
put themselves there,
1049
00:48:17,561 --> 00:48:18,687
but they kind of did.
1050
00:48:22,858 --> 00:48:25,820
♪ (PENSIVE PIANO
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1051
00:48:28,531 --> 00:48:30,324
JONES:
The original investigators...
1052
00:48:30,408 --> 00:48:31,492
Let's see, how'd they put it?
1053
00:48:31,534 --> 00:48:33,994
Had some shortcomings
in the case, yeah.
1054
00:48:36,539 --> 00:48:39,208
We could have went and filed
any of those confessions we had.
1055
00:48:40,042 --> 00:48:42,002
Got a warrant for arrest,
1056
00:48:42,044 --> 00:48:44,672
and then worried
about making the case later.
1057
00:48:44,755 --> 00:48:47,633
That didn't work out so well
for Paul and them.
1058
00:48:49,009 --> 00:48:51,387
{\an8}MARGARET:
1059
00:48:51,470 --> 00:48:54,306
{\an8}Same thing you always ask me.
"How you feeling right now?
1060
00:48:56,475 --> 00:48:59,895
What would you like to say
to Maurice Pierce now?"
1061
00:49:01,355 --> 00:49:02,523
Considering that...
1062
00:49:03,399 --> 00:49:04,567
I think he made the statement--
1063
00:49:04,650 --> 00:49:06,861
I think he made
the statement that
1064
00:49:06,902 --> 00:49:09,196
he didn't really care
whether he was dead or not.
1065
00:49:11,490 --> 00:49:12,908
"What are your thoughts now?"
1066
00:49:14,743 --> 00:49:16,704
Maurice may be dead, but...
1067
00:49:16,745 --> 00:49:18,873
Robert Springsteen
is still alive,
1068
00:49:18,956 --> 00:49:21,041
and so is Michael Scott, and...
1069
00:49:21,584 --> 00:49:23,335
so is Forrest Welborn.
1070
00:49:24,962 --> 00:49:26,088
"They're all still alive.
1071
00:49:26,172 --> 00:49:28,007
What would you like
to say to them?"
1072
00:49:29,008 --> 00:49:32,011
And maybe
the jury found them guilty,
1073
00:49:32,094 --> 00:49:35,055
because of the way evidence
was presented to them.
1074
00:49:35,097 --> 00:49:36,765
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1075
00:49:38,350 --> 00:49:40,769
♪ (SOMBER PIANO MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1076
00:49:45,191 --> 00:49:47,109
PAUL JOHNSON: So,
I have three horses over here.
1077
00:49:58,537 --> 00:50:01,123
They don't get
a lot of attention.
1078
00:50:05,461 --> 00:50:06,921
I don't really care too much
1079
00:50:06,962 --> 00:50:10,508
about what the public thinks
about my investigation.
1080
00:50:10,591 --> 00:50:11,634
A case like this,
1081
00:50:11,717 --> 00:50:14,094
where somebody
that we were not investigating
1082
00:50:14,178 --> 00:50:16,514
{\an8}is matched to the crime...
1083
00:50:18,516 --> 00:50:21,060
{\an8}I would expect people
that are concerned...
1084
00:50:22,478 --> 00:50:25,022
to question
the previous investigation
1085
00:50:25,105 --> 00:50:27,608
that didn't point to this guy.
1086
00:50:27,650 --> 00:50:30,486
{\an8}But I did watch
the press conference
1087
00:50:30,569 --> 00:50:34,114
{\an8}and what they said
at the press conference
1088
00:50:34,156 --> 00:50:36,909
{\an8}seems to absolutely indicate
1089
00:50:36,992 --> 00:50:39,453
this new guy was there
1090
00:50:39,954 --> 00:50:41,330
and was involved.
1091
00:50:41,413 --> 00:50:43,916
What I don't think it shows
1092
00:50:43,958 --> 00:50:46,919
or anything that they said
at the press conference shows
1093
00:50:46,961 --> 00:50:48,546
-that other people...
-♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1094
00:50:48,629 --> 00:50:50,881
...or maybe even the ones
that we filed on,
1095
00:50:50,965 --> 00:50:53,133
were not there.
Just because he was,
1096
00:50:53,217 --> 00:50:54,802
I don't think that shows
1097
00:50:54,843 --> 00:50:58,222
that our guys
or other guys were not.
1098
00:51:03,143 --> 00:51:05,229
{\an8}What kind of shocked me is
1099
00:51:05,312 --> 00:51:09,108
that he said he's never listened
to the confessions.
1100
00:51:09,692 --> 00:51:14,321
{\an8}ROBERT SPRINGSTEEN:
1101
00:51:14,363 --> 00:51:15,990
{\an8}PAUL: If he would listen
to the confessions
1102
00:51:16,031 --> 00:51:17,283
{\an8}or read the investigations
1103
00:51:17,366 --> 00:51:18,742
{\an8}that had to do
with the confessions,
1104
00:51:18,826 --> 00:51:21,412
{\an8}there would be things
that could not be explained
1105
00:51:21,495 --> 00:51:24,832
by our guys
not having been there.
1106
00:51:24,915 --> 00:51:28,961
{\an8}MARGARET:
1107
00:51:34,133 --> 00:51:36,844
{\an8}Nobody says that exactly.
1108
00:51:36,927 --> 00:51:41,599
The only thing
we could figure out
1109
00:51:41,682 --> 00:51:48,105
is that the person
that they're not identifying
1110
00:51:48,188 --> 00:51:51,066
was so bad and scary
1111
00:51:51,150 --> 00:51:54,028
that they would rather not.
1112
00:51:54,069 --> 00:51:57,281
{\an8}MARGARET:
1113
00:51:57,364 --> 00:51:59,074
{\an8}And-- Very likely.
1114
00:51:59,158 --> 00:52:02,202
That kind of person might scare
these little teenagers.
1115
00:52:02,286 --> 00:52:04,913
♪ (OMINOUS INSTRUMENTAL
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1116
00:52:04,997 --> 00:52:06,832
PAUL: If they all
had something to do
1117
00:52:06,915 --> 00:52:08,459
with going into the yogurt shop
1118
00:52:08,542 --> 00:52:10,628
and they're scared of him to...
1119
00:52:11,712 --> 00:52:12,880
point the finger at him or,
1120
00:52:12,921 --> 00:52:14,506
"Okay, I'm not going
to point the finger at him,
1121
00:52:14,590 --> 00:52:16,342
I'll point the finger
at Forrest.
1122
00:52:16,425 --> 00:52:17,760
He doesn't scare anybody."
1123
00:52:18,260 --> 00:52:20,262
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1124
00:52:24,725 --> 00:52:26,810
♪ ("MONA LISA" BY CONWAY TWITTY
PLAYING OVER SPEAKERS) ♪
1125
00:52:26,894 --> 00:52:30,814
♪ Mona Lisa, Mona Lisa
Men have named you ♪
1126
00:52:30,898 --> 00:52:34,943
♪ You're so like a lady
With a mystic smile ♪
1127
00:52:39,323 --> 00:52:42,451
♪ ("MONA LISA"
CONTINUES PLAYING) ♪
1128
00:52:43,661 --> 00:52:50,125
It's like an old Austin
kind of feel to me.
1129
00:52:50,209 --> 00:52:51,752
You know, I know
that there's a lot
1130
00:52:51,794 --> 00:52:53,253
of country music getting played,
1131
00:52:53,295 --> 00:52:56,173
but that's not all
that gets played.
1132
00:52:56,256 --> 00:52:57,383
It just... I don't know,
1133
00:52:57,424 --> 00:53:00,803
it just reminds me
of the old days, sort of.
1134
00:53:00,886 --> 00:53:02,638
♪ (SLOW COUNTRY MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1135
00:53:02,721 --> 00:53:07,393
This is chile rellenos
with chicken.
1136
00:53:08,602 --> 00:53:12,314
And this is vegetable
with pasta.
1137
00:53:12,398 --> 00:53:15,442
But this was a repeat request.
1138
00:53:15,484 --> 00:53:17,194
{\an8}MARGARET:
1139
00:53:17,277 --> 00:53:19,321
♪ (SINISTER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1140
00:53:21,573 --> 00:53:23,158
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1141
00:53:23,242 --> 00:53:25,285
SHARON SHIPMAN:
We lived not too far away
1142
00:53:25,369 --> 00:53:26,995
from Northcross Mall.
1143
00:53:27,079 --> 00:53:30,958
{\an8}I actually had to pick him up
at the juvenile center
1144
00:53:30,999 --> 00:53:35,129
{\an8}because he and Maurice
were at Northcross Mall.
1145
00:53:35,170 --> 00:53:36,964
♪ (SOMBER INSTRUMENTAL
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1146
00:53:37,005 --> 00:53:39,925
SHARON: When I got there,
they told me
1147
00:53:40,008 --> 00:53:43,887
that Maurice had a gun with him.
1148
00:53:43,971 --> 00:53:46,557
I picked Forrest up
and brought him home.
1149
00:53:46,640 --> 00:53:50,477
It was later that we found out
that they were being questioned
1150
00:53:50,561 --> 00:53:53,439
about the yogurt shop murders.
1151
00:53:57,276 --> 00:53:58,736
He would be walking to school,
1152
00:53:58,819 --> 00:54:01,155
and there would be
a car parked outside.
1153
00:54:01,196 --> 00:54:03,323
And the detective
would get out and say,
1154
00:54:03,365 --> 00:54:05,284
"Get in the car.
We're going for a ride."
1155
00:54:08,495 --> 00:54:10,205
He was 15 years old.
1156
00:54:10,289 --> 00:54:13,041
He didn't know
he didn't have to get in the car
1157
00:54:13,125 --> 00:54:14,293
and go with him.
1158
00:54:15,586 --> 00:54:18,213
He didn't have anything to hide.
1159
00:54:18,297 --> 00:54:21,008
We knew there were a lot of kids
being questioned.
1160
00:54:21,049 --> 00:54:25,095
I guess I didn't realize
how serious it was.
1161
00:54:26,221 --> 00:54:31,018
The detectives brought him
to my house and said,
1162
00:54:31,101 --> 00:54:32,519
"We have two confessions
1163
00:54:32,561 --> 00:54:36,523
and we're going
to make the arrest in two weeks.
1164
00:54:36,565 --> 00:54:40,068
And Forrest has the opportunity
to save himself,
1165
00:54:40,152 --> 00:54:43,489
so you need to convince him
to confess."
1166
00:54:44,323 --> 00:54:46,700
So, every day for two weeks,
1167
00:54:46,784 --> 00:54:48,952
I sat at his shop with him
1168
00:54:49,036 --> 00:54:51,705
because I wanted to make sure
he was safe.
1169
00:54:51,747 --> 00:54:55,626
The day I went back to work,
they arrested him.
1170
00:54:55,709 --> 00:54:59,505
♪ (SOMBER INSTRUMENTAL
MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪
1171
00:55:12,100 --> 00:55:13,769
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1172
00:55:14,937 --> 00:55:16,939
FORREST WELBORN: There's no time
when it's not there.
1173
00:55:17,940 --> 00:55:19,399
I want it to go away.
1174
00:55:24,863 --> 00:55:27,616
{\an8}(INHALES, CLICKS TONGUE)
1175
00:55:27,699 --> 00:55:30,744
It's still very difficult
to even talk about,
1176
00:55:30,786 --> 00:55:32,120
or think about, or...
1177
00:55:38,085 --> 00:55:41,797
♪ (SOMBER INSTRUMENTAL
MUSIC RESUMES) ♪
1178
00:55:44,299 --> 00:55:45,551
FORREST:
I've had people try to tell me
1179
00:55:45,634 --> 00:55:47,010
I should be celebrating,
1180
00:55:47,094 --> 00:55:49,429
but it's still not over,
you know.
1181
00:55:49,471 --> 00:55:52,307
It's not a celebration moment.
1182
00:55:53,809 --> 00:55:56,144
I hope everybody believes that,
1183
00:55:56,228 --> 00:55:58,981
you know,
I wasn't there now, you know.
1184
00:55:59,064 --> 00:56:00,482
A lot of people...
1185
00:56:01,859 --> 00:56:03,652
think of me as a murderer.
1186
00:56:03,735 --> 00:56:05,487
And I've had to deal with that.
1187
00:56:06,321 --> 00:56:08,866
Lost jobs, lost relationships,
1188
00:56:08,949 --> 00:56:11,535
lost friends. You know.
1189
00:56:12,870 --> 00:56:16,248
(CLEARS THROAT)
It's been really difficult.
1190
00:56:19,710 --> 00:56:26,592
{\an8}(OVER RECORDING)
1191
00:56:28,927 --> 00:56:30,345
{\an8}MARGARET:
1192
00:56:30,429 --> 00:56:32,848
{\an8}Uh, betrayal, you know?
1193
00:56:32,931 --> 00:56:34,850
He was my best friend
at the time.
1194
00:56:35,601 --> 00:56:38,270
And to have him try to say
1195
00:56:38,353 --> 00:56:40,105
that I was there
and I had a part of it
1196
00:56:40,188 --> 00:56:43,525
was just absolutely insane
to me.
1197
00:56:43,609 --> 00:56:44,735
That's where I lost...
1198
00:56:44,818 --> 00:56:46,111
(INHALES DEEPLY)
1199
00:56:46,153 --> 00:56:48,864
...lost a lot of hope in people,
you know, especially friends.
1200
00:56:48,947 --> 00:56:51,867
I wasn't able
to really trust anybody.
1201
00:56:51,950 --> 00:56:54,244
Ended up dropping out
of eighth grade...
1202
00:56:54,328 --> 00:56:55,621
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1203
00:56:55,704 --> 00:56:57,039
...'cause I just couldn't do it.
1204
00:56:57,122 --> 00:56:58,373
MARGARET: I'm so sorry.
1205
00:57:02,544 --> 00:57:04,671
I went back the next year.
1206
00:57:04,713 --> 00:57:08,508
But I only stayed
for a couple months and left.
1207
00:57:09,927 --> 00:57:14,222
{\an8}MARGARET:
1208
00:57:17,059 --> 00:57:18,060
{\an8}Yes.
1209
00:57:18,143 --> 00:57:19,561
{\an8}MARGARET:
1210
00:57:19,645 --> 00:57:22,230
{\an8}(CLEARS THROAT) Yeah, um...
1211
00:57:27,402 --> 00:57:28,403
(SNIFFLES)
1212
00:57:29,905 --> 00:57:32,741
(SOBS HEAVILY)
1213
00:57:32,824 --> 00:57:33,992
MARGARET: Wait a minute.
1214
00:57:39,414 --> 00:57:42,167
(FORREST SOBS)
1215
00:57:44,127 --> 00:57:45,462
-(EXHALES, MUTTERS)
-MARGARET: You okay?
1216
00:57:45,545 --> 00:57:47,547
-FORREST: I'm good. (SNIFFLES)
-MARGARET: Okay.
1217
00:57:47,589 --> 00:57:49,007
(FORREST SIGHS)
1218
00:57:49,091 --> 00:57:50,384
MARGARET: Just had to take
a breath.
1219
00:57:50,425 --> 00:57:51,927
(FORREST SNIFFLES, SIGHS)
1220
00:57:56,890 --> 00:57:58,016
Yeah, it's very hard.
1221
00:57:58,100 --> 00:57:59,393
MARGARET: I know.
I'm really sorry.
1222
00:57:59,476 --> 00:58:01,395
♪ (SOMBER INSTRUMENTAL
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1223
00:58:04,189 --> 00:58:05,399
Well, they came... they came...
1224
00:58:05,440 --> 00:58:07,484
I had a business site
in Lockhart
1225
00:58:07,567 --> 00:58:09,069
while I was doing
automotive repair.
1226
00:58:09,111 --> 00:58:12,406
They came, surrounded the place
1227
00:58:12,447 --> 00:58:14,908
and arrested me,
took me away from my business,
1228
00:58:14,950 --> 00:58:16,284
charged me for the crime.
1229
00:58:18,286 --> 00:58:19,788
Ended up losing that business.
1230
00:58:20,998 --> 00:58:22,916
Thought I was going to prison
for the rest of my life
1231
00:58:22,958 --> 00:58:25,293
for something I didn't do.
Thought it was over.
1232
00:58:25,836 --> 00:58:27,671
{\an8}MARGARET:
1233
00:58:27,754 --> 00:58:28,922
{\an8}-No.
-MARGARET: Yeah.
1234
00:58:29,006 --> 00:58:30,424
I wasn't going to talk to him
ever again,
1235
00:58:30,465 --> 00:58:31,550
and I never did.
1236
00:58:34,469 --> 00:58:36,513
Now, it's hard for me
to really bring somebody
1237
00:58:36,596 --> 00:58:37,639
in that close anymore,
1238
00:58:37,723 --> 00:58:39,850
and, you know,
I have some friends
1239
00:58:39,933 --> 00:58:42,269
but not super close.
1240
00:58:42,310 --> 00:58:45,480
If I find someone
that does like me,
1241
00:58:45,564 --> 00:58:46,940
then that's one
of the first things
1242
00:58:47,024 --> 00:58:48,734
I have to let them know,
1243
00:58:48,817 --> 00:58:49,985
is that I've been...
1244
00:58:50,944 --> 00:58:52,112
wrapped up in all this
1245
00:58:52,195 --> 00:58:54,906
with the yogurt shop murders.
And...
1246
00:58:54,948 --> 00:58:57,451
-So, it normally
doesn't work out very well.
-♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1247
00:58:57,492 --> 00:59:00,912
{\an8}MARGARET:
1248
00:59:01,329 --> 00:59:03,206
Um, six months.
1249
00:59:04,958 --> 00:59:06,668
I've tried, but...
1250
00:59:07,669 --> 00:59:09,421
you know, I mean,
it's the worst crime in Austin,
1251
00:59:09,504 --> 00:59:10,505
you know.
1252
00:59:10,589 --> 00:59:12,591
So, to get involved with,
1253
00:59:12,632 --> 00:59:15,135
you know...
I've never really been cleared.
1254
00:59:15,177 --> 00:59:16,303
I've never, you know...
1255
00:59:16,344 --> 00:59:17,804
I've never had anybody
come out and say,
1256
00:59:17,888 --> 00:59:20,766
"Oh, he's innocent,"
you know, let the world know.
1257
00:59:21,349 --> 00:59:23,852
{\an8}MARGARET:
1258
00:59:26,730 --> 00:59:28,648
You know,
I'm sad for him and his family.
1259
00:59:31,276 --> 00:59:32,778
But still,
1260
00:59:32,861 --> 00:59:35,197
I've been angry at him
for so long for what...
1261
00:59:36,573 --> 00:59:38,492
he said to the detectives
1262
00:59:38,533 --> 00:59:41,620
and I thought
we were best friends and so...
1263
00:59:42,996 --> 00:59:46,416
{\an8}MARGARET:
1264
00:59:46,500 --> 00:59:48,376
{\an8}I don't care anything
about them.
1265
00:59:48,460 --> 00:59:52,547
Anybody that can try to say
that I was there and did it,
1266
00:59:53,381 --> 00:59:55,133
I have no sense
in talking to 'em
1267
00:59:55,217 --> 00:59:57,219
or have any feelings
towards them.
1268
00:59:57,302 --> 00:59:59,554
I know it's really bad to say,
but...
1269
01:00:01,389 --> 01:00:04,309
it doesn't hurt my feelings
that they went to jail at all,
1270
01:00:04,351 --> 01:00:06,686
because what they tried
to do to me,
1271
01:00:06,728 --> 01:00:08,772
try to make me sit in there.
1272
01:00:08,855 --> 01:00:13,026
I've got pulled over
all the time by the police,
1273
01:00:13,527 --> 01:00:15,070
once a week.
1274
01:00:15,153 --> 01:00:19,783
I've been incarcerated 50 times
1275
01:00:20,534 --> 01:00:22,577
for nonsense.
1276
01:00:24,037 --> 01:00:26,039
I don't know what's going
to change it, but...
1277
01:00:26,790 --> 01:00:27,916
maybe one day.
1278
01:00:30,919 --> 01:00:31,920
There's...
1279
01:00:37,884 --> 01:00:39,553
The four girls,
1280
01:00:39,636 --> 01:00:41,513
they weren't the only ones
that lost their lives.
1281
01:00:46,601 --> 01:00:47,602
No.
1282
01:00:51,523 --> 01:00:54,818
♪ (REFLECTIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1283
01:01:06,746 --> 01:01:08,623
{\an8}MARGARET:
1284
01:01:08,707 --> 01:01:10,000
{\an8}(INHALES DEEPLY)
1285
01:01:10,083 --> 01:01:15,088
Well, in our case, the person
that killed our daughter,
1286
01:01:15,130 --> 01:01:17,632
there's justice
because he's no longer here.
1287
01:01:18,842 --> 01:01:21,094
{\an8}MARGARET:
1288
01:01:21,178 --> 01:01:22,262
I don't.
1289
01:01:22,304 --> 01:01:24,598
I don't think of him as human.
It's just...
1290
01:01:24,639 --> 01:01:26,600
♪ (REFLECTIVE MUSIC
CONTINUES SOFTLY) ♪
1291
01:01:26,641 --> 01:01:28,560
He's the reason, and that's it.
1292
01:01:29,519 --> 01:01:33,148
Right now he's a monster
and I'm okay with that.
1293
01:01:33,231 --> 01:01:37,152
{\an8}I just feel like
there's evil people out there.
1294
01:01:37,235 --> 01:01:39,446
{\an8}I don't know what
makes them that way.
1295
01:01:39,529 --> 01:01:41,489
{\an8}I don't want to spend
too much time
1296
01:01:41,573 --> 01:01:44,701
sort of thinking about them
or understanding them
1297
01:01:44,784 --> 01:01:46,578
or what
their backstory is. (CHUCKLES)
1298
01:01:46,661 --> 01:01:49,164
{\an8}MARGARET:
1299
01:01:57,797 --> 01:01:59,341
{\an8}I guess because he's dead.
1300
01:02:00,217 --> 01:02:02,052
That's where all
the peace comes in.
1301
01:02:03,345 --> 01:02:07,515
He's not gonna hurt or do
anything else to anybody else.
1302
01:02:07,599 --> 01:02:09,809
I just want to know
what life he had
1303
01:02:09,851 --> 01:02:11,645
that made him this way.
1304
01:02:11,728 --> 01:02:13,813
Children are not born evil.
1305
01:02:13,897 --> 01:02:15,774
We caused them to be this...
1306
01:02:16,608 --> 01:02:18,276
and I want to know
what happened.
1307
01:02:18,360 --> 01:02:20,237
Was he not held enough?
1308
01:02:20,320 --> 01:02:22,197
-Was he not loved enough?
-♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1309
01:02:22,280 --> 01:02:26,034
Or did he just--
just decided not to care,
1310
01:02:26,117 --> 01:02:28,036
not to care about anybody
but himself,
1311
01:02:28,119 --> 01:02:29,204
somewhere along the way?
1312
01:02:29,287 --> 01:02:32,207
♪ (SOMBER INSTRUMENTAL
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1313
01:02:38,838 --> 01:02:40,632
CECE: You know,
he's one of those serial killers
1314
01:02:40,715 --> 01:02:42,759
who didn't want to be famous,
1315
01:02:42,842 --> 01:02:45,720
{\an8}didn't want his crimes
to be known.
1316
01:02:45,804 --> 01:02:48,473
{\an8}And so, now that he's infamous,
1317
01:02:48,556 --> 01:02:51,309
{\an8}it is interesting
to think about what that means,
1318
01:02:51,393 --> 01:02:54,479
how much energy is put
into thinking about him
1319
01:02:54,562 --> 01:02:55,689
at this point.
1320
01:02:55,772 --> 01:02:56,815
It doesn't matter.
1321
01:02:59,401 --> 01:03:01,987
What's the use of spending
too much time
1322
01:03:02,028 --> 01:03:04,364
-and energy thinking about him?
-♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1323
01:03:04,447 --> 01:03:06,533
Now, I wish I felt that way
1324
01:03:06,616 --> 01:03:08,201
because I've been
obsessed with him
1325
01:03:08,285 --> 01:03:12,289
and I've spent thousands
of hours researching him.
1326
01:03:12,372 --> 01:03:13,957
♪ (INTRIGUING PIANO
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1327
01:03:14,040 --> 01:03:16,459
CECE: I've identified lots
of serial killers
1328
01:03:16,543 --> 01:03:19,045
and they didn't
all stick with me.
1329
01:03:19,129 --> 01:03:23,216
This guy was incredibly evil,
incredibly violent.
1330
01:03:23,258 --> 01:03:25,885
He has literally haunted
my dreams.
1331
01:03:25,969 --> 01:03:29,556
My feeling was
that his story wasn't finished
1332
01:03:29,597 --> 01:03:32,851
and other people
were still waiting for answers.
1333
01:03:33,935 --> 01:03:36,146
My years-long obsession
1334
01:03:36,229 --> 01:03:39,232
has led me to want
to talk to people who knew him.
1335
01:03:39,274 --> 01:03:43,403
Because I feel like any
little clue could potentially
1336
01:03:43,486 --> 01:03:46,448
lead us to another case
that he's responsible for.
1337
01:03:51,536 --> 01:03:54,456
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1338
01:03:56,082 --> 01:03:58,001
I feel like I have
more paperwork on my father
1339
01:03:58,084 --> 01:03:59,627
than I do anything else.
1340
01:04:02,380 --> 01:04:04,424
I have one photo
of me and my father,
1341
01:04:04,466 --> 01:04:06,134
and that is the family photo
that, of course,
1342
01:04:06,217 --> 01:04:07,844
is all over the internet.
1343
01:04:07,927 --> 01:04:09,763
♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1344
01:04:10,930 --> 01:04:12,432
DEBORAH BRASHERS:
This picture was taken
1345
01:04:12,515 --> 01:04:14,392
the summer of 1997.
1346
01:04:14,476 --> 01:04:17,145
The night we moved to Arkansas,
this picture was taken.
1347
01:04:19,314 --> 01:04:22,484
{\an8}I didn't know of anything,
anything bad about my father.
1348
01:04:22,567 --> 01:04:25,153
{\an8}I had just met him
not long before that.
1349
01:04:25,236 --> 01:04:26,446
{\an8}He pulled in the driveway
one day
1350
01:04:26,529 --> 01:04:27,572
{\an8}and said, "Hi, I'm your father."
1351
01:04:27,614 --> 01:04:29,366
My mother said, "Hey,
this is your daddy for real."
1352
01:04:31,409 --> 01:04:32,786
And then, that's just my daddy.
1353
01:04:32,869 --> 01:04:35,914
And then he's dead.
Not long after.
1354
01:04:35,997 --> 01:04:38,666
♪ (SUSPENSEFUL STRING
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1355
01:04:38,750 --> 01:04:40,335
DEBORAH: I was around
more people growing up
1356
01:04:40,418 --> 01:04:43,588
that were strange
than I was normal people.
1357
01:04:44,547 --> 01:04:45,799
Criminals, people that...
1358
01:04:45,840 --> 01:04:47,967
Like, the weird feelings that
you get around certain people,
1359
01:04:48,009 --> 01:04:49,135
those were my normal.
1360
01:04:50,178 --> 01:04:52,055
My mother was not
the greatest person.
1361
01:04:52,138 --> 01:04:55,058
So, the people that,
you know, you're born from,
1362
01:04:55,141 --> 01:04:57,811
if they're that way,
then how do you know?
1363
01:04:57,852 --> 01:05:01,147
Differentiating that was
very hard until I got older.
1364
01:05:03,483 --> 01:05:06,069
To me, people being
shitty to you is normal.
1365
01:05:08,029 --> 01:05:11,199
For a very long time,
that's how my life was.
1366
01:05:12,784 --> 01:05:13,993
The only part of my life
1367
01:05:14,035 --> 01:05:15,787
that I thought
was the most normal
1368
01:05:15,870 --> 01:05:17,705
was all actually coming out
to be a lie now,
1369
01:05:17,789 --> 01:05:19,124
because that was
the time of my life
1370
01:05:19,207 --> 01:05:20,750
-when I was with my father.
-♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1371
01:05:20,834 --> 01:05:22,669
-MAN: Here you go. Here we go.
-(CHILD GIGGLING)
1372
01:05:22,710 --> 01:05:26,214
DEBORAH: The little bit of time
that I met him until he died,
1373
01:05:26,297 --> 01:05:28,716
it was the best time
of our entire life.
1374
01:05:28,800 --> 01:05:30,093
We didn't have
to want for anything.
1375
01:05:30,176 --> 01:05:31,344
We didn't have
to question anything.
1376
01:05:31,428 --> 01:05:32,470
Like, we were never hurt,
1377
01:05:32,512 --> 01:05:35,682
never touched by men
or anything in that nature.
1378
01:05:35,723 --> 01:05:38,184
My mother didn't run off on us.
1379
01:05:38,226 --> 01:05:40,353
It was like the white picket
fence type family.
1380
01:05:40,395 --> 01:05:42,355
Like, you got three girls,
a father that goes to work,
1381
01:05:42,439 --> 01:05:43,523
a mother that goes to work.
1382
01:05:43,606 --> 01:05:46,067
We have cookouts,
we have birthday parties,
1383
01:05:46,151 --> 01:05:48,361
like... just normal.
1384
01:05:48,403 --> 01:05:49,696
A lot of people will tell you,
1385
01:05:49,737 --> 01:05:52,031
you would have never thought
my father was who he was,
1386
01:05:52,115 --> 01:05:53,741
but he was a very evil man.
1387
01:05:55,785 --> 01:05:58,955
♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1388
01:05:59,038 --> 01:06:00,540
Come to find out
he was on the run
1389
01:06:00,582 --> 01:06:02,500
for breaking and entering
a woman's house
1390
01:06:02,584 --> 01:06:05,545
in 1998, over Easter weekend.
1391
01:06:05,587 --> 01:06:07,797
{\an8}It was Easter morning
when he was caught in her house.
1392
01:06:07,881 --> 01:06:08,965
{\an8}Why are you not at home?
1393
01:06:09,048 --> 01:06:11,301
{\an8}You have three children at home.
It's Easter.
1394
01:06:11,384 --> 01:06:12,385
{\an8}MARGARET:
1395
01:06:12,469 --> 01:06:14,554
{\an8}In 1998, he...
Breaking and entering
1396
01:06:14,637 --> 01:06:18,224
into someone else's house
he used to work in.
1397
01:06:18,308 --> 01:06:21,144
He broke in her house
and cut her phone line.
1398
01:06:21,227 --> 01:06:23,521
He had a kill kit on him.
He was going to kill this woman.
1399
01:06:23,563 --> 01:06:25,440
Why? I don't know,
she didn't do nothing to him.
1400
01:06:25,523 --> 01:06:26,524
{\an8}MARGARET:
1401
01:06:26,608 --> 01:06:27,775
{\an8}-A kill kit.
-MARGARET:
1402
01:06:27,859 --> 01:06:32,697
{\an8}He had black gloves,
zip ties, a gun.
1403
01:06:32,739 --> 01:06:35,408
-He had multiple of those kits.
-♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1404
01:06:35,450 --> 01:06:37,243
DEBORAH: He left the gun there,
got arrested,
1405
01:06:37,285 --> 01:06:39,287
called my mother and told
my mother where the gun was.
1406
01:06:39,370 --> 01:06:40,914
And my mother called my grandpa
1407
01:06:40,997 --> 01:06:44,042
and my grandfather went
to go pick up the gun.
1408
01:06:44,083 --> 01:06:46,377
My mother and grandfather
had to have known something.
1409
01:06:46,461 --> 01:06:47,712
Like, there's people that,
1410
01:06:47,795 --> 01:06:51,090
as long as you don't hurt
my family, it's okay.
1411
01:06:51,174 --> 01:06:53,301
And that's what
I'm afraid of. I'm...
1412
01:06:53,384 --> 01:06:55,637
I'm afraid of that
being the truth.
1413
01:06:55,720 --> 01:06:57,138
(INDISTINCT RADIO CHATTER)
1414
01:06:57,222 --> 01:06:58,306
DEBORAH: Normally,
1415
01:06:58,389 --> 01:07:00,475
without him on the run,
we called him Robert or Daddy.
1416
01:07:00,558 --> 01:07:03,019
But when he was on the run,
we were told to call him Mitch.
1417
01:07:03,102 --> 01:07:05,813
Like, before we went out to eat,
he put a little wig on,
1418
01:07:05,897 --> 01:07:07,273
'cause we knew
he was "on the run."
1419
01:07:07,357 --> 01:07:09,943
So, you know,
he couldn't look like hisself.
1420
01:07:09,984 --> 01:07:12,362
He used to dress up as a woman
and rob Shoney's
1421
01:07:12,445 --> 01:07:14,155
and Waffle Houses
in the middle of the night.
1422
01:07:14,239 --> 01:07:15,657
Would go test drive a car
1423
01:07:15,740 --> 01:07:17,325
and then put the key
in this little putty,
1424
01:07:17,408 --> 01:07:19,452
and remake the key, and he'd
go steal that car that night.
1425
01:07:19,536 --> 01:07:20,912
Like, he'd done a lot,
1426
01:07:20,995 --> 01:07:23,957
but you wouldn't have thought
that he murdered people.
1427
01:07:24,040 --> 01:07:25,625
I remember when
the Scherer murders,
1428
01:07:25,708 --> 01:07:28,628
the broadcast come up on the TV
and my mother got scared.
1429
01:07:28,670 --> 01:07:30,255
And he's like, "Oh, no,
that would never happen here,
1430
01:07:30,338 --> 01:07:31,339
we're fine."
1431
01:07:31,422 --> 01:07:33,925
Yeah, because you done it.
But he was nonchalant.
1432
01:07:35,260 --> 01:07:37,136
There's no telling how many
more crimes that he's done
1433
01:07:37,220 --> 01:07:38,888
that no one
will ever know about.
1434
01:07:38,972 --> 01:07:40,640
That's what
I'm coming to terms with.
1435
01:07:41,808 --> 01:07:43,184
If I have to live
with this every day,
1436
01:07:43,268 --> 01:07:45,645
I at least need to know that
I've said sorry to these people.
1437
01:07:45,728 --> 01:07:49,023
Someone that is a blood kin
to him
1438
01:07:49,107 --> 01:07:50,441
is sorry for what he's done.
1439
01:07:50,525 --> 01:07:53,653
♪ (SOFT REFLECTIVE
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1440
01:07:53,695 --> 01:07:54,821
DEBORAH:
I don't want to upset anyone
1441
01:07:54,904 --> 01:07:56,155
by reaching out to them.
1442
01:07:56,197 --> 01:07:58,658
I've never reached out
to the Scherer families,
1443
01:07:58,700 --> 01:08:00,410
but I've reached out
to family members
1444
01:08:00,493 --> 01:08:04,205
in South Carolina,
and in Austin...
1445
01:08:06,416 --> 01:08:08,293
and told them that I'm sorry.
1446
01:08:10,044 --> 01:08:11,212
I want to break
1447
01:08:11,296 --> 01:08:13,506
all the generational curses
as possible.
1448
01:08:16,092 --> 01:08:19,178
This was for the two men
that were falsely accused
1449
01:08:19,262 --> 01:08:21,973
of my father's crimes
in Austin, Texas.
1450
01:08:22,056 --> 01:08:23,850
"Hi, my name is Deborah Brashers
1451
01:08:23,891 --> 01:08:26,352
and I understand the words
that I'm about to say
1452
01:08:26,436 --> 01:08:28,313
may not mean much to you.
1453
01:08:28,396 --> 01:08:29,772
I'm not the one
who caused the pain
1454
01:08:29,856 --> 01:08:31,524
and hardship you've endured,
1455
01:08:31,608 --> 01:08:34,193
but I am a descendant
of that person who did.
1456
01:08:34,277 --> 01:08:35,737
I cannot begin to imagine
1457
01:08:35,820 --> 01:08:38,197
everything you've been through
since 1999.
1458
01:08:38,239 --> 01:08:40,908
{\an8}My father's actions
took so much from you.
1459
01:08:40,992 --> 01:08:43,870
Even though I wasn't
involved in his choices,
1460
01:08:43,911 --> 01:08:47,457
I still feel deep regret for
the pain his actions caused you.
1461
01:08:47,540 --> 01:08:49,667
I wanted to reach out
and acknowledge what happened
1462
01:08:49,751 --> 01:08:50,668
and tell you that
1463
01:08:50,752 --> 01:08:52,712
someone recognizes
the wrong that was done.
1464
01:08:52,795 --> 01:08:54,255
You didn't deserve what happened
1465
01:08:54,339 --> 01:08:57,216
and I'm sorry for all you lost
because of it.
1466
01:08:57,258 --> 01:08:58,760
Sincerely, Deborah Brashers."
1467
01:09:00,094 --> 01:09:02,221
And it took me a couple of days
to write that,
1468
01:09:02,263 --> 01:09:05,058
like write exactly
what I wanted to write in it.
1469
01:09:05,141 --> 01:09:07,268
I'm gonna have to print it out
and send it to them.
1470
01:09:10,772 --> 01:09:12,440
This is right before
he showed up.
1471
01:09:15,443 --> 01:09:16,736
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1472
01:09:16,819 --> 01:09:18,112
-CLAIRE HUIE: You wanna try it?
-Yep.
1473
01:09:18,196 --> 01:09:19,822
CLAIRE: Okay, okay,
let's try this one.
1474
01:09:20,531 --> 01:09:22,200
I haven't talked to the boys.
1475
01:09:23,201 --> 01:09:24,243
There you go.
1476
01:09:24,285 --> 01:09:27,622
{\an8}I hope they are enjoying
some kind of peace
1477
01:09:27,705 --> 01:09:30,500
{\an8}as a result of this news.
1478
01:09:30,583 --> 01:09:33,419
I can't imagine what it's like
to have that kind of weight
1479
01:09:33,461 --> 01:09:38,424
where even the people who say
they think you're innocent
1480
01:09:38,466 --> 01:09:40,593
-maybe don't really believe it.
-CHILD: Come up here.
1481
01:09:40,635 --> 01:09:42,136
I didn't think they did it.
1482
01:09:42,845 --> 01:09:44,180
And then there was the question.
1483
01:09:44,263 --> 01:09:45,264
CHILD: Come up here, Mom.
1484
01:09:45,306 --> 01:09:48,351
And I... I was really convinced.
1485
01:09:48,434 --> 01:09:50,520
-And the question
was still there.
-CHILD: Mom, I do...
1486
01:09:50,603 --> 01:09:52,689
CLAIRE: I spent a lot of time
with Robert Springsteen.
1487
01:09:52,772 --> 01:09:56,234
He managed that tension
with so much grace.
1488
01:09:56,984 --> 01:09:57,985
Um...
1489
01:09:58,069 --> 01:10:01,072
And now knowing for sure
he didn't do it, like,
1490
01:10:01,114 --> 01:10:03,116
how is he not
the angriest person on earth?
1491
01:10:03,199 --> 01:10:05,660
And he's not. He's not angry.
1492
01:10:05,743 --> 01:10:06,744
{\an8}MARGARET:
1493
01:10:06,828 --> 01:10:08,454
{\an8}Because I asked him directly.
1494
01:10:08,538 --> 01:10:10,164
-♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
-I'm not angry, I'm not--
1495
01:10:10,248 --> 01:10:13,000
{\an8}As you guys have seen,
I'm not really...
1496
01:10:13,084 --> 01:10:14,711
{\an8}I'm not really
that emotional about it,
1497
01:10:14,794 --> 01:10:16,754
{\an8}or that mad about it,
or, you know,
1498
01:10:16,838 --> 01:10:19,132
{\an8}I let all that anger
and stuff go.
1499
01:10:19,173 --> 01:10:22,260
CLAIRE: Rob and I spent
a lot of time alone together.
1500
01:10:22,343 --> 01:10:23,803
And if I thought
he was a murderer,
1501
01:10:23,886 --> 01:10:25,179
I wouldn't
have done that. (CHUCKLES)
1502
01:10:26,055 --> 01:10:28,474
And then with Michael Scott,
he says,
1503
01:10:28,516 --> 01:10:30,810
"I think I might have
had something to do with it."
1504
01:10:30,893 --> 01:10:32,395
ROBERT: (OVER VIDEO)
They really screwed me over.
1505
01:10:33,396 --> 01:10:34,731
He didn't, so it's still...
1506
01:10:34,814 --> 01:10:37,358
Even in his own mind,
he can't trust himself.
1507
01:10:38,401 --> 01:10:41,112
Now, he can tell himself fully,
"I didn't."
1508
01:10:41,154 --> 01:10:42,989
-Okay, I'm following you.
-♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1509
01:10:43,030 --> 01:10:44,574
CLAIRE: Nice.
1510
01:10:45,324 --> 01:10:47,660
{\an8}MARGARET:
1511
01:10:47,744 --> 01:10:50,496
{\an8}CLAIRE: If he were still alive,
I would be terrified
1512
01:10:50,580 --> 01:10:51,998
for everyone.
1513
01:10:52,039 --> 01:10:55,376
The force of the evil present
is terrifying.
1514
01:10:56,419 --> 01:10:57,962
Nice. Boosh!
1515
01:10:58,045 --> 01:11:00,381
On the one hand, it's a relief
1516
01:11:00,465 --> 01:11:02,842
that it's kind of over
and he's done.
1517
01:11:02,884 --> 01:11:07,513
But it is anticlimactic
that he's dead.
1518
01:11:07,597 --> 01:11:10,683
It feels like he was
always this unknown
1519
01:11:10,767 --> 01:11:12,560
and he remains an unknown.
1520
01:11:16,272 --> 01:11:17,607
He just kind of
swept through town
1521
01:11:17,690 --> 01:11:20,359
and caused a lot of destruction
for a lot of people.
1522
01:11:20,443 --> 01:11:23,571
♪ (SOMBER PENSIVE
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1523
01:11:25,281 --> 01:11:28,367
CECE: After I identified him
in 2018,
1524
01:11:28,451 --> 01:11:31,370
I started looking for cold cases
in all the places
1525
01:11:31,412 --> 01:11:32,747
I knew that he lived.
1526
01:11:34,332 --> 01:11:35,583
That's why I was so disappointed
1527
01:11:35,666 --> 01:11:38,252
I couldn't have helped solve
the yogurt shop case.
1528
01:11:39,086 --> 01:11:41,130
They didn't have enough DNA
1529
01:11:41,214 --> 01:11:43,633
for us
to perform genetic genealogy.
1530
01:11:45,885 --> 01:11:48,387
If only I had known
that, right here,
1531
01:11:48,471 --> 01:11:52,975
should be the stop
at the Texas border in December,
1532
01:11:53,059 --> 01:11:54,685
things would have been
very different.
1533
01:11:56,646 --> 01:11:58,314
{\an8}I would have known immediately
1534
01:11:58,397 --> 01:12:02,318
{\an8}that he was a very
strong suspect for yogurt shop.
1535
01:12:02,401 --> 01:12:05,404
♪ (LOW TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1536
01:12:05,488 --> 01:12:10,451
{\an8}DAN: So, back to December 8th,
1991, he's getting out of Texas.
1537
01:12:10,535 --> 01:12:13,454
He goes to jail that night
on the stolen truck
1538
01:12:13,538 --> 01:12:15,540
and a felon
in possession of a firearm.
1539
01:12:18,626 --> 01:12:20,920
Somebody bonds him out
five days later.
1540
01:12:20,962 --> 01:12:22,880
Someone pays for his bond,
I don't know who.
1541
01:12:25,007 --> 01:12:27,009
And then fast-forward
a couple months,
1542
01:12:28,636 --> 01:12:31,973
{\an8}February of '92, he gets
arrested in Cobb County, Georgia
1543
01:12:32,056 --> 01:12:34,892
{\an8}in a stolen vehicle
from Tyler, Texas.
1544
01:12:34,934 --> 01:12:37,812
So, basically he bonds out,
backtracks through Texas,
1545
01:12:37,895 --> 01:12:40,273
steals another truck,
and ends up in Georgia,
1546
01:12:40,356 --> 01:12:41,607
where he gets arrested again.
1547
01:12:42,859 --> 01:12:44,735
I think that's when
he had burglary tools,
1548
01:12:44,819 --> 01:12:47,780
police scanner,
a fake police ID.
1549
01:12:47,864 --> 01:12:49,365
I think, like, a wig.
1550
01:12:50,616 --> 01:12:53,619
{\an8}The possession of a firearm
by a felon is taken federally
1551
01:12:53,703 --> 01:12:56,038
{\an8}and he gets five years
in prison.
1552
01:12:56,914 --> 01:12:58,165
{\an8}Once he's sentenced though,
1553
01:12:58,249 --> 01:13:00,960
{\an8}that .380
is given to his father.
1554
01:13:01,043 --> 01:13:04,130
His father is able to get it
out of police custody.
1555
01:13:04,839 --> 01:13:06,007
Talking to an ATF guy,
1556
01:13:06,090 --> 01:13:07,633
they're like, "Yeah,
that's not an easy thing to do.
1557
01:13:07,675 --> 01:13:09,927
You gotta fill out, like,
a lot of paperwork.
It's kind of a pain."
1558
01:13:10,011 --> 01:13:12,263
And we're talking,
like, maybe a 75-dollar gun.
1559
01:13:14,807 --> 01:13:18,519
So, when he gets out in '97,
he gets his gun back.
1560
01:13:18,603 --> 01:13:20,813
(SCOFFS) But, at first,
we couldn't believe it,
1561
01:13:20,855 --> 01:13:22,398
but then that actually
led us to help solve
1562
01:13:22,481 --> 01:13:25,109
other cases,
because he kept the gun.
1563
01:13:25,192 --> 01:13:27,570
We would have never linked
any of these cases to Kentucky.
1564
01:13:27,653 --> 01:13:29,322
{\an8}We wouldn't have got a NIBIN hit
because the gun
1565
01:13:29,405 --> 01:13:32,116
would still be sitting
in a federal archive.
1566
01:13:32,158 --> 01:13:36,537
Completely, like, unforeseen
chain of events led to all this.
1567
01:13:37,121 --> 01:13:38,372
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1568
01:13:39,081 --> 01:13:40,625
♪ (TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1569
01:13:40,708 --> 01:13:43,711
DAN: And then, January of '99,
1570
01:13:43,794 --> 01:13:46,130
police officers driving through
the parking lot
1571
01:13:46,172 --> 01:13:48,633
of a Super 8 motel
in Kennett, Missouri...
1572
01:13:49,842 --> 01:13:51,928
sees a car
that kind of sticks out.
1573
01:13:53,387 --> 01:13:55,222
Plate comes back stolen.
1574
01:13:55,306 --> 01:13:56,390
They look in the car,
there's like,
1575
01:13:56,474 --> 01:13:57,892
some kids' toys or something.
1576
01:13:57,975 --> 01:14:00,019
Front desk is like,
"Well, the only people
staying here with kids
1577
01:14:00,102 --> 01:14:01,228
is room number whatever."
1578
01:14:01,312 --> 01:14:02,772
-(KNOCKING ON DOOR)
-BRASHERS' WIFE:
What do you want?
1579
01:14:02,855 --> 01:14:04,106
DAN: Brashers' wife,
she gives a fake name
1580
01:14:04,190 --> 01:14:05,524
of who her husband is.
1581
01:14:05,566 --> 01:14:06,817
"He left," you know,
1582
01:14:06,859 --> 01:14:08,361
-"I don't know when
he's coming back."
-(KIDS CLAMORING)
1583
01:14:08,444 --> 01:14:10,363
DAN: And they start
looking around the room,
1584
01:14:10,404 --> 01:14:13,449
and they find him hiding
underneath the bed with a gun.
1585
01:14:13,532 --> 01:14:15,159
♪ (MUSIC RISES) ♪
1586
01:14:15,201 --> 01:14:16,786
DAN:
It becomes a police standoff.
1587
01:14:21,582 --> 01:14:23,501
DEBORAH:
We woke up to guns everywhere.
1588
01:14:23,542 --> 01:14:25,086
There are police officers
right here to the left.
1589
01:14:25,169 --> 01:14:27,922
There's like five
to seven of them, guns drawn.
1590
01:14:28,005 --> 01:14:30,383
And there's a police officer
over here, holding the bed up
1591
01:14:30,424 --> 01:14:31,884
and my father's laying
underneath the bed
1592
01:14:31,968 --> 01:14:33,010
with the gun to his head.
1593
01:14:34,345 --> 01:14:35,888
They put my mother in handcuffs,
1594
01:14:35,930 --> 01:14:37,765
and then they took us
out in the hallway.
1595
01:14:37,848 --> 01:14:39,016
And where we were sitting at,
1596
01:14:39,100 --> 01:14:40,726
you could look down
and you could see the pool,
1597
01:14:40,768 --> 01:14:42,561
and you could look up and see
the reflection behind you
1598
01:14:42,603 --> 01:14:43,896
as to everything
that was happening.
1599
01:14:43,938 --> 01:14:45,898
As the door opens,
you can see, like,
1600
01:14:45,982 --> 01:14:47,900
my father's throwing stuff
out of the room.
1601
01:14:47,984 --> 01:14:51,946
And about that same time,
I heard a big boom,
1602
01:14:52,029 --> 01:14:54,240
and then I seen
police officers go in.
1603
01:14:54,281 --> 01:14:56,909
DAN: He throws out a bunch
of their clothing and stuff,
1604
01:14:56,993 --> 01:15:00,037
and he also throws out
a nine-millimeter pistol.
1605
01:15:00,121 --> 01:15:02,373
And then he shoots himself
in the room.
1606
01:15:05,626 --> 01:15:07,753
♪ (PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1607
01:15:07,837 --> 01:15:12,967
He had shot himself
with an AMT .380 Backup model.
1608
01:15:14,719 --> 01:15:16,679
The serial number is
the same one he was stopped at
1609
01:15:16,762 --> 01:15:18,180
two days after yogurt shop.
1610
01:15:20,474 --> 01:15:21,642
So, it was like full circle.
1611
01:15:21,726 --> 01:15:23,853
He used that gun
to commit his murders
1612
01:15:23,936 --> 01:15:25,479
and then
he killed himself with it.
1613
01:15:29,984 --> 01:15:31,944
He had a nine-millimeter
and he had a .380.
1614
01:15:31,986 --> 01:15:33,112
If I was going to shoot myself,
1615
01:15:33,154 --> 01:15:34,780
I would definitely pick
the nine-millimeter.
1616
01:15:34,822 --> 01:15:35,948
It's more powerful.
1617
01:15:36,032 --> 01:15:38,325
So, he picked that gun
for a reason.
1618
01:15:38,409 --> 01:15:39,952
Um, that was his trophy.
1619
01:15:40,036 --> 01:15:41,954
And that's what
he killed himself with.
1620
01:15:43,080 --> 01:15:44,874
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1621
01:15:44,957 --> 01:15:46,459
They, of course,
interrogated us,
1622
01:15:46,542 --> 01:15:48,461
asked us
all kinds of questions.
1623
01:15:48,544 --> 01:15:50,296
And we lied.
"That's Mitch. That's Mitch.
1624
01:15:50,379 --> 01:15:53,174
I don't know who Robert is.
I have no idea who Robert is."
1625
01:15:54,592 --> 01:15:55,843
So, on the suicide note,
1626
01:15:55,926 --> 01:15:58,179
the outside of it says,
"To the police."
1627
01:16:00,097 --> 01:16:01,974
And then on the--
He wrote in it,
1628
01:16:02,058 --> 01:16:05,144
"In the event you are
reading this, I am dead.
1629
01:16:05,227 --> 01:16:08,147
Please, I beg you,
do not contact my father.
1630
01:16:08,230 --> 01:16:11,484
He has just came out of
the hospital from cancer surgery
1631
01:16:11,525 --> 01:16:14,570
and it will kill him if
the cops tell him. Thank you."
1632
01:16:17,364 --> 01:16:19,200
Like the "Thank you"
on the bottom of this note,
1633
01:16:19,283 --> 01:16:20,284
just it's...
1634
01:16:21,243 --> 01:16:22,369
Like, why?
1635
01:16:24,830 --> 01:16:27,166
He was dead for 20 years
before anybody knew anything.
1636
01:16:28,709 --> 01:16:30,544
I don't think he ever thought
he would get caught.
1637
01:16:30,628 --> 01:16:33,547
♪ (LOW TENSE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1638
01:16:36,217 --> 01:16:38,385
DAN: How he got into the shop,
we don't know.
1639
01:16:39,720 --> 01:16:42,223
He had a different line
each time, it seems like,
1640
01:16:42,306 --> 01:16:44,517
different ruses he would use.
1641
01:16:44,558 --> 01:16:46,644
So, this was--
The actual tip was taken on
1642
01:16:46,727 --> 01:16:50,856
December 8th of 1991,
so just two days later.
1643
01:16:50,940 --> 01:16:55,361
The caller, Mr. Croft,
worked for Longhorn Security,
1644
01:16:55,402 --> 01:16:58,697
and he had been a customer
that night at the yogurt shop.
1645
01:16:58,781 --> 01:17:00,074
♪ (SUSPENSEFUL STRING
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1646
01:17:00,157 --> 01:17:01,951
DAN: Said he was in the store
till 10:15 p.m.
1647
01:17:02,034 --> 01:17:03,702
and noticed a White male
in his late twenties,
1648
01:17:03,786 --> 01:17:05,162
acted strange.
1649
01:17:06,247 --> 01:17:07,331
"When I entered the store,
1650
01:17:07,414 --> 01:17:09,542
I saw a couple eating
at one of the booths
1651
01:17:09,625 --> 01:17:12,753
and another couple
ordering from one of the girls.
1652
01:17:12,837 --> 01:17:15,548
The Thomas girl
was at the register.
1653
01:17:15,631 --> 01:17:18,050
There was a White male subject
standing between the place
1654
01:17:18,092 --> 01:17:19,385
where you order at the counter
1655
01:17:19,468 --> 01:17:21,679
and the register
where the Thomas girl was.
1656
01:17:22,680 --> 01:17:24,014
All of a sudden,
the subject nudged me
1657
01:17:24,098 --> 01:17:25,266
and I turned to him and he said,
1658
01:17:25,349 --> 01:17:27,601
'Are you driving that car
with the lights on top?'
1659
01:17:27,685 --> 01:17:29,019
{\an8}He was talking
about my work car,
1660
01:17:29,103 --> 01:17:30,437
{\an8}which has overheads on it.
1661
01:17:30,521 --> 01:17:32,273
{\an8}I said it was my car
and then he asked me,
1662
01:17:32,356 --> 01:17:35,234
{\an8}'Are you a cop, or security,
or what are you?'
1663
01:17:35,276 --> 01:17:37,736
The girl asked what he wanted,
and he hesitated for a minute
1664
01:17:37,820 --> 01:17:39,572
and then said,
'I want a cold drink.'
1665
01:17:39,613 --> 01:17:40,906
And this stuck me as funny,
1666
01:17:40,948 --> 01:17:42,700
because why would you just want
a cold drink
1667
01:17:42,783 --> 01:17:44,076
if you're in a yogurt shop?
1668
01:17:45,327 --> 01:17:47,079
While he was
at the register paying,
1669
01:17:47,163 --> 01:17:49,915
he asked the Thomas girl
if they had a restroom.
1670
01:17:49,999 --> 01:17:51,500
She told him that
it was in the back,
1671
01:17:51,584 --> 01:17:52,751
and he picked up his Sprite
1672
01:17:52,835 --> 01:17:54,753
and walked behind the counter
to the back.
1673
01:17:55,754 --> 01:17:57,381
I stood there and talked
to the Thomas girl
1674
01:17:57,464 --> 01:17:58,591
for a good ten to 15 minutes,
1675
01:17:58,674 --> 01:18:01,760
mostly to see if the subject
was going to come back out.
1676
01:18:01,802 --> 01:18:03,929
I kind of had a bad feeling
about him anyway.
1677
01:18:03,971 --> 01:18:05,389
But he never did.
1678
01:18:05,431 --> 01:18:06,891
After a while,
my yogurt started to melt
1679
01:18:06,974 --> 01:18:08,434
and I said goodbye and left.
1680
01:18:08,475 --> 01:18:09,935
{\an8}He was a White male.
1681
01:18:10,019 --> 01:18:12,271
{\an8}He was about 5'9'',
and had a medium build.
1682
01:18:12,354 --> 01:18:14,273
{\an8}After that, I went to
the football game in Houston
1683
01:18:14,315 --> 01:18:15,774
and then we got back
to Austin on Sunday
1684
01:18:15,858 --> 01:18:18,277
and I heard
about the news of the murders."
1685
01:18:18,360 --> 01:18:19,570
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1686
01:18:20,237 --> 01:18:21,655
And that's when it ends.
1687
01:18:23,657 --> 01:18:25,826
We'll never know for sure
if that was Brashers,
1688
01:18:25,910 --> 01:18:27,411
but it definitely fits
the storyline
1689
01:18:27,494 --> 01:18:28,495
of maybe he got in there,
1690
01:18:28,579 --> 01:18:29,997
used the restroom,
and didn't come out.
1691
01:18:31,415 --> 01:18:33,542
Or went up and propped open
the back door.
1692
01:18:33,626 --> 01:18:35,461
(SIREN WAILING)
1693
01:18:35,544 --> 01:18:38,881
♪ (MELANCHOLIC INSTRUMENTAL
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1694
01:18:41,759 --> 01:18:44,803
I was sitting here
and there was a sea of red.
1695
01:18:46,055 --> 01:18:48,974
{\an8}(SIGHS) Fire trucks
with lights flashing.
1696
01:18:50,559 --> 01:18:53,395
{\an8}Patrol units
with their lights flashing.
1697
01:18:57,191 --> 01:18:59,693
There was smoke.
I could still see smoke...
1698
01:19:00,736 --> 01:19:02,738
coming out
where they vented the roof.
1699
01:19:02,821 --> 01:19:05,741
♪ (OMINOUS MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1700
01:19:05,824 --> 01:19:09,662
-(INDISTINCT RADIO CHATTER)
-(RADIO BEEPS)
1701
01:19:12,373 --> 01:19:15,292
So, I come in here and...
1702
01:19:15,376 --> 01:19:17,503
(SIREN WAILING)
1703
01:19:17,586 --> 01:19:20,005
...I knew enough
not to go around this way,
1704
01:19:20,089 --> 01:19:22,716
and this is where I park.
1705
01:19:22,800 --> 01:19:25,386
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
1706
01:19:26,720 --> 01:19:28,639
JONES:
The fingernails made it for me.
1707
01:19:29,556 --> 01:19:31,475
There could be
no cross-contamination
1708
01:19:31,517 --> 01:19:34,061
with what's under
her fingernails, and...
1709
01:19:35,104 --> 01:19:37,856
That is investigator 101
1710
01:19:37,940 --> 01:19:42,027
that on sexual assaults
where the victims live,
1711
01:19:42,111 --> 01:19:45,531
-you always scrape
the fingernails.
-♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1712
01:19:45,572 --> 01:19:47,950
-You know,
bag it up and send it off.
-MARGARET: Who is that?
1713
01:19:48,033 --> 01:19:48,993
{\an8}I'm sorry?
1714
01:19:49,076 --> 01:19:51,203
{\an8}MARGARET:
1715
01:19:51,245 --> 01:19:52,496
Huh?
1716
01:19:52,579 --> 01:19:54,290
-Jeez.
-SONORA: Mm-hmm.
1717
01:19:55,582 --> 01:19:58,043
-JONES: Jeez, Sonora.
-(SONORA SPEAKS INDISTINCTLY)
1718
01:19:58,127 --> 01:20:00,045
JONES: I don't know
what to say about this. (LAUGHS)
1719
01:20:00,087 --> 01:20:01,338
SONORA: (LAUGHS) I know.
1720
01:20:01,380 --> 01:20:04,675
Well, and I wouldn't...
I don't usually come here.
1721
01:20:04,717 --> 01:20:07,970
-You know, it's a little
challenging, obviously.
-♪ (SENTIMENTAL MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1722
01:20:08,053 --> 01:20:10,055
But this friend
that I had breakfast with said,
1723
01:20:10,097 --> 01:20:11,432
"I wanted to buy flowers
1724
01:20:11,515 --> 01:20:12,808
and bring them over
to the yogurt shop.
1725
01:20:12,891 --> 01:20:14,727
I don't know
if you're up for it."
1726
01:20:14,810 --> 01:20:16,645
And I said,
well, you know, I'm pr--
1727
01:20:16,729 --> 01:20:18,731
you know, practicing saying yes
to everything.
1728
01:20:18,772 --> 01:20:21,108
And I said,
"Sure, let's-- lemme try it."
1729
01:20:25,279 --> 01:20:27,364
-How about this, huh?
-JONES: Yeah.
1730
01:20:28,365 --> 01:20:30,784
-(SONORA SIGHS)
-Thirty-four years.
1731
01:20:31,994 --> 01:20:35,372
I mean, it's so heartening
to see all these flowers here.
1732
01:20:35,456 --> 01:20:38,208
It's like so many people
still think about it.
1733
01:20:38,292 --> 01:20:40,919
-Please, go ahead.
-JONES: Oh, yes.
1734
01:20:44,882 --> 01:20:49,053
♪ (EMOTIONAL PIANO
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1735
01:20:51,889 --> 01:20:54,308
{\an8}MOURNER 1:
1736
01:20:56,810 --> 01:20:58,854
{\an8}-Oh, wow.
-MOURNER 1:
1737
01:21:02,900 --> 01:21:04,777
{\an8}MOURNER 1:
1738
01:21:04,860 --> 01:21:06,612
{\an8}SONORA:
1739
01:21:06,695 --> 01:21:09,114
{\an8}MOURNER 1:
1740
01:21:11,158 --> 01:21:12,284
{\an8}SONORA: Mm-hmm.
1741
01:21:13,327 --> 01:21:15,037
MOURNER 1:
All right, I'll let y'all go.
1742
01:21:15,120 --> 01:21:17,748
-Yeah. Thanks for coming by.
-MOURNER 1: Yeah.
It was nice meeting you.
1743
01:21:20,084 --> 01:21:22,586
♪ (MELANCHOLIC INSTRUMENTAL
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1744
01:21:22,669 --> 01:21:24,213
ARNE ASTAD:
We were cleaning the dining room
1745
01:21:24,296 --> 01:21:26,673
because at that time,
Gatti's had a buffet.
1746
01:21:27,508 --> 01:21:29,051
{\an8}I was back doing dishes
1747
01:21:29,134 --> 01:21:30,803
{\an8}and Dave was vacuuming
and he goes,
1748
01:21:30,844 --> 01:21:31,970
{\an8}"Oh, look out there,
1749
01:21:32,054 --> 01:21:34,306
{\an8}there's fire trucks out
in the parking lot."
1750
01:21:34,348 --> 01:21:35,599
From this shopping center,
1751
01:21:35,682 --> 01:21:36,809
to the end of that
shopping center,
1752
01:21:36,892 --> 01:21:40,354
to the wallpaper place,
we all shared the same attic.
1753
01:21:41,063 --> 01:21:43,232
So, smoke started coming in.
1754
01:21:43,315 --> 01:21:45,526
You know, we really
didn't know at that time
1755
01:21:45,609 --> 01:21:47,236
until like after 3:00,
4:00 in the morning.
1756
01:21:47,319 --> 01:21:49,571
Then we heard,
like, the tragic news.
1757
01:21:54,118 --> 01:21:55,369
Well, thank you.
1758
01:21:55,452 --> 01:21:57,538
-Yeah, thank you so much.
-Thank you.
1759
01:22:01,875 --> 01:22:03,252
(SIGHS)
1760
01:22:03,335 --> 01:22:04,920
Gosh, if we stay here
long enough,
1761
01:22:05,003 --> 01:22:06,713
we're gonna meet
all kinds of people.
1762
01:22:06,797 --> 01:22:08,757
I can't believe
he was here that night.
1763
01:22:11,051 --> 01:22:13,470
{\an8}MOURNER 2:
1764
01:22:16,640 --> 01:22:17,766
{\an8}SONORA: Right.
1765
01:22:17,850 --> 01:22:20,853
And I feel sorry for those boys
that got sent to prison too
1766
01:22:20,936 --> 01:22:23,689
because of the police work then.
1767
01:22:23,730 --> 01:22:24,815
Right.
1768
01:22:24,898 --> 01:22:26,525
They thought they did it,
but they didn't really.
1769
01:22:26,567 --> 01:22:28,569
And it was like,
"Oh my goodness."
1770
01:22:29,611 --> 01:22:30,737
SONORA: Yeah.
1771
01:22:38,954 --> 01:22:40,247
(JONES SIGHS)
1772
01:22:44,001 --> 01:22:45,627
♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1773
01:22:47,546 --> 01:22:49,590
-Oh, we lived to see this.
-This is... This is...
1774
01:22:49,673 --> 01:22:51,633
-Yeah.
-(SIGHS)
1775
01:22:51,717 --> 01:22:53,886
It's all the work
you did that night.
1776
01:22:53,927 --> 01:22:57,556
♪ (SOMBER MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1777
01:22:57,639 --> 01:23:00,767
SONORA: To me, it's so sweet
that people remember.
1778
01:23:01,852 --> 01:23:04,480
And at the same time,
I hope people forget.
1779
01:23:05,522 --> 01:23:06,940
(SCOFFS)
1780
01:23:07,024 --> 01:23:09,443
Let's all create new stories.
1781
01:23:11,361 --> 01:23:12,905
Life has to be generative.
1782
01:23:12,946 --> 01:23:16,450
We can't keep holding on
to the past.
1783
01:23:16,533 --> 01:23:19,411
I think that's why
I'm starting to think...
1784
01:23:19,453 --> 01:23:21,538
about, "What's it going
to be like a year from now?"
1785
01:23:21,622 --> 01:23:23,624
I mean, this story
will always be with me.
1786
01:23:23,707 --> 01:23:26,084
-Gimme a kiss, Sonora.
-(KISSES)
1787
01:23:26,168 --> 01:23:29,046
SONORA: But again, it's not like
I'm living in the mystery
1788
01:23:29,129 --> 01:23:30,464
and the angst of it.
1789
01:23:31,965 --> 01:23:33,383
Yeah, there's the creek.
1790
01:23:38,138 --> 01:23:40,933
I feel like this whole thing
is almost over.
1791
01:23:42,309 --> 01:23:45,854
And at some point
this is just gonna be history.
1792
01:23:47,189 --> 01:23:48,774
It'll be something we remember,
1793
01:23:48,857 --> 01:23:51,401
but it's not something
we're living through anymore.
1794
01:23:52,861 --> 01:23:55,822
It's like now we have
the answers and we can...
1795
01:23:59,576 --> 01:24:01,286
put the question behind us.
1796
01:24:01,370 --> 01:24:03,705
Maybe that's the part
we can put behind us.
1797
01:24:08,835 --> 01:24:10,879
BARBARA:
So many memories and so many...
1798
01:24:10,963 --> 01:24:13,840
Y'all have seen everything...
The world has seen so much.
1799
01:24:14,675 --> 01:24:16,009
Yeah, that was Sarah's.
1800
01:24:16,843 --> 01:24:19,638
But there's not too many left.
1801
01:24:19,680 --> 01:24:22,849
Now, it's taken over
with my new grandkids.
1802
01:24:24,184 --> 01:24:27,479
Who is this from? Maddie.
She made me a hat.
1803
01:24:28,438 --> 01:24:29,982
By the way,
I think y'all are all nuts
1804
01:24:30,023 --> 01:24:32,317
for being in this business.
1805
01:24:32,359 --> 01:24:34,736
It's so... it's such
a weird business.
1806
01:24:34,820 --> 01:24:35,946
-(LAUGHS) Just...
-(MARGARET LAUGHS)
1807
01:24:36,029 --> 01:24:38,907
I don't mean to be disrespectful
in any way to anybody
1808
01:24:38,991 --> 01:24:41,785
over all these years
who's interviewed me.
1809
01:24:41,868 --> 01:24:43,662
No disrespect.
1810
01:24:43,704 --> 01:24:45,706
But I'm so glad
that's over with.
1811
01:24:45,789 --> 01:24:47,874
What a blessing, I wasn't...
1812
01:24:47,958 --> 01:24:49,459
I didn't know
this would ever happen,
1813
01:24:49,543 --> 01:24:51,628
but this will be
my last interview.
1814
01:24:52,421 --> 01:24:53,755
You're supposed
to let this shit go,
1815
01:24:53,839 --> 01:24:55,507
'cause this eats you up.
1816
01:24:55,591 --> 01:24:58,385
♪ (GENTLE EMOTIONAL
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1817
01:24:58,468 --> 01:25:00,387
(BIRDS CHIRPING)
1818
01:25:02,055 --> 01:25:06,810
-Hold on to that plate.
-(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
1819
01:25:06,893 --> 01:25:08,895
SHAWN: Our fight for
this case is over with.
1820
01:25:10,314 --> 01:25:12,065
Our fight is not done
for other people.
1821
01:25:13,525 --> 01:25:15,152
ANGIE AYERS: Trying to make
a place where we can
1822
01:25:15,235 --> 01:25:17,446
{\an8}include forensic experts,
1823
01:25:17,529 --> 01:25:20,032
{\an8}DNA experts, genealogists,
geneticists,
1824
01:25:20,073 --> 01:25:22,826
{\an8}victims' advocates,
all wrapped into one.
1825
01:25:22,868 --> 01:25:25,370
So, if people had questions,
they can reach out to one place.
1826
01:25:25,412 --> 01:25:26,580
A nonprofit.
1827
01:25:26,663 --> 01:25:30,751
What we put our energy forward
now is towards that.
1828
01:25:32,419 --> 01:25:33,754
ANGIE:
Trying to help other families
1829
01:25:33,837 --> 01:25:34,963
with whatever
they're going through
1830
01:25:35,047 --> 01:25:36,840
'cause everybody's journey
is different.
1831
01:25:37,799 --> 01:25:40,093
SHAWN: Hopefully to solve
some more cases.
1832
01:25:40,177 --> 01:25:42,095
And get some more answers
for people,
1833
01:25:42,179 --> 01:25:43,597
so they don't
have to wonder no more.
1834
01:25:47,100 --> 01:25:49,269
-♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
-(BIRDS CHIRPING)
1835
01:25:49,353 --> 01:25:50,812
{\an8}MARGARET:
1836
01:25:56,360 --> 01:26:00,989
If it turns out that they had
nothing at all to do with it,
1837
01:26:01,073 --> 01:26:02,908
I would feel like
I had been fooled.
1838
01:26:02,949 --> 01:26:07,496
If they just happened to make up
the body positions,
1839
01:26:07,579 --> 01:26:08,538
I would just have been fooled.
1840
01:26:08,622 --> 01:26:10,957
I was acting on this stuff
and that didn't happen,
1841
01:26:11,041 --> 01:26:12,084
who knows?
1842
01:26:13,126 --> 01:26:14,127
Then I was wrong.
1843
01:26:14,211 --> 01:26:17,756
If the investigators get
something wrong or gets fooled,
1844
01:26:17,839 --> 01:26:22,260
it's not his decision
that puts them in prison,
1845
01:26:22,344 --> 01:26:25,347
it's the decision of these 12...
1846
01:26:26,014 --> 01:26:28,642
{\an8}MARGARET:
1847
01:26:28,725 --> 01:26:31,311
{\an8}Well, I still don't think...
(CHUCKLES) ...it's wrong myself.
1848
01:26:31,395 --> 01:26:33,480
♪ (SOMBER PIANO
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1849
01:26:33,563 --> 01:26:36,525
WARE: I've never seen
a case quite like this
1850
01:26:36,608 --> 01:26:39,361
where so many people,
so many professionals,
1851
01:26:39,444 --> 01:26:42,614
were so absolutely sure
that they were right,
1852
01:26:42,698 --> 01:26:45,534
all along, tragically,
very, very wrong.
1853
01:26:45,617 --> 01:26:49,913
{\an8}REPORTER:
1854
01:26:51,623 --> 01:26:54,084
{\an8}WARE:
There's a whole area of study
1855
01:26:54,167 --> 01:26:56,086
{\an8}that professors
write about, et cetera,
1856
01:26:56,169 --> 01:26:57,462
{\an8}called innocence deniers,
1857
01:26:57,504 --> 01:27:01,091
{\an8}and it's often police,
prosecutors, et cetera,
1858
01:27:01,174 --> 01:27:03,844
will contort in their own mind,
1859
01:27:03,927 --> 01:27:05,929
"Well, okay,
there's this new evidence,
1860
01:27:06,012 --> 01:27:08,348
but the original guy's
still guilty," and why?
1861
01:27:08,432 --> 01:27:09,683
PHOTOGRAPHER: Two, one.
1862
01:27:09,766 --> 01:27:11,560
WARE: The evidence
is so overwhelming now
1863
01:27:11,643 --> 01:27:15,105
that I think probably, everybody
pretty much accepts it.
1864
01:27:15,147 --> 01:27:18,775
I expect that they will get
a judicial declaration
1865
01:27:18,817 --> 01:27:21,737
that they are actually innocent
and that they are exonerated.
1866
01:27:21,820 --> 01:27:25,365
{\an8}♪ (SOMBER PIANO
MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪
1867
01:27:25,449 --> 01:27:27,492
{\an8}JOSÉ P. GARZA: I don't think
we've ever been here before.
1868
01:27:27,534 --> 01:27:29,828
{\an8}We have a situation where
1869
01:27:29,911 --> 01:27:31,913
{\an8}their convictions
were thrown out.
1870
01:27:33,707 --> 01:27:36,585
No one has been
convicted of a crime.
1871
01:27:36,668 --> 01:27:39,755
Yet the burden
and weight of the allegation
1872
01:27:39,838 --> 01:27:42,841
has clung to them for 30 years,
1873
01:27:42,883 --> 01:27:45,886
and they carry it with them
everywhere they go.
1874
01:27:45,969 --> 01:27:47,888
(CAMERA SHUTTERS CLICKING)
1875
01:27:50,265 --> 01:27:52,184
JOSÉ:
The interrogations that led
1876
01:27:52,267 --> 01:27:55,187
to these so-called confessions
were flawed,
1877
01:27:55,228 --> 01:27:57,564
they were unlawful,
they were unjust.
1878
01:27:57,647 --> 01:27:58,899
{\an8}DETECTIVE:
1879
01:27:58,982 --> 01:28:00,358
{\an8}JOSÉ: Unfortunately,
1880
01:28:00,400 --> 01:28:03,487
{\an8}there were many Hector Polancos
during that time.
1881
01:28:03,528 --> 01:28:06,364
There was a culture
that he didn't start
1882
01:28:06,448 --> 01:28:08,074
and he certainly
wasn't the last of.
1883
01:28:09,785 --> 01:28:11,995
It was a moment in our history
1884
01:28:12,078 --> 01:28:14,623
that we have
an obligation to understand
1885
01:28:14,706 --> 01:28:17,334
and to do everything we can
to make right.
1886
01:28:17,417 --> 01:28:18,752
There needs to be a reckoning.
1887
01:28:20,337 --> 01:28:22,756
♪ (MUSIC TURNS TENSE) ♪
1888
01:28:22,839 --> 01:28:25,300
(INDISTINCT MURMURING)
1889
01:28:44,194 --> 01:28:45,278
BAILIFF: All rise.
1890
01:28:51,576 --> 01:28:52,786
JUDGE DAYNA BLAZEY:
Please be seated.
1891
01:28:52,869 --> 01:28:54,496
Good morning, everybody.
1892
01:28:57,999 --> 01:28:59,292
TRUDY STRASSBURGER:
Every day in this courthouse,
1893
01:28:59,376 --> 01:29:01,795
the state asks people
to take responsibility
1894
01:29:01,878 --> 01:29:03,922
for harm they've caused
to another.
1895
01:29:04,005 --> 01:29:06,550
{\an8}And then we do what we can
to assist in repairing the harm.
1896
01:29:06,633 --> 01:29:07,592
{\an8}♪ (SOLEMN MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1897
01:29:07,634 --> 01:29:11,263
{\an8}Today, it's our turn
to accept responsibility
1898
01:29:11,304 --> 01:29:13,265
and to use the truth
to mitigate harm,
1899
01:29:13,348 --> 01:29:16,226
so we can help all involved
heal and move forward.
1900
01:29:17,143 --> 01:29:18,562
Over 25 years ago,
1901
01:29:18,645 --> 01:29:21,106
the state prosecuted
four innocent men,
1902
01:29:21,147 --> 01:29:23,316
{\an8}teenage boys
at the time of the crime,
1903
01:29:23,400 --> 01:29:26,945
{\an8}in what is known
as the 1991 yogurt shop murders.
1904
01:29:27,028 --> 01:29:30,657
The wrongful prosecutions
caused harm to Amy Ayers,
1905
01:29:30,740 --> 01:29:34,661
Eliza Thomas, and sisters,
Jennifer and Sarah Harbison.
1906
01:29:34,744 --> 01:29:36,329
They deserve justice.
1907
01:29:37,831 --> 01:29:40,000
There was harm
to the families of the girls.
1908
01:29:40,083 --> 01:29:41,585
{\an8}They were asked to trust us
1909
01:29:41,626 --> 01:29:43,920
{\an8}when we told them
we had the perpetrators.
1910
01:29:43,962 --> 01:29:46,298
And now they've been asked
to put away the thoughts
1911
01:29:46,339 --> 01:29:48,300
and feelings
that festered for decades
1912
01:29:48,383 --> 01:29:50,010
with eyes on the wrong people,
1913
01:29:50,093 --> 01:29:53,054
uncertainty,
and a lack of finality.
1914
01:29:53,138 --> 01:29:54,973
There was harm caused
to this community.
1915
01:29:55,056 --> 01:29:57,934
Believing that teenagers
were capable of these acts
1916
01:29:58,018 --> 01:30:00,103
changed our perception
of humanity.
1917
01:30:01,354 --> 01:30:03,273
It goes without saying
that harm was caused
1918
01:30:03,356 --> 01:30:05,901
to the four
wrongfully prosecuted.
1919
01:30:05,984 --> 01:30:07,861
Today, we are going
to take the first step
1920
01:30:07,944 --> 01:30:10,864
in righting that harm
by shining a light on the truth.
1921
01:30:10,947 --> 01:30:12,991
♪ (REFLECTIVE PIANO
MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1922
01:30:13,033 --> 01:30:15,535
JUDGE DAYNA: Please have a seat
on the witness stand.
1923
01:30:15,619 --> 01:30:17,287
TRUDY:
Did your investigation uncover
1924
01:30:17,370 --> 01:30:19,205
any forensic
or physical evidence
1925
01:30:19,289 --> 01:30:20,832
connecting any of the four
to the murders?
1926
01:30:20,916 --> 01:30:21,958
No.
1927
01:30:22,042 --> 01:30:24,002
TRUDY: Did your investigation
uncover any evidence
1928
01:30:24,085 --> 01:30:26,338
connecting the four
to Robert Brashers in any way?
1929
01:30:26,421 --> 01:30:27,464
No.
1930
01:30:27,547 --> 01:30:28,673
{\an8}TRUDY: And in the confessions,
1931
01:30:28,715 --> 01:30:31,301
{\an8}there were confessions
to the sexual assaults.
1932
01:30:31,384 --> 01:30:34,262
{\an8}Based on what you knew
about the exclusions of the four
1933
01:30:34,346 --> 01:30:36,514
from the vaginal swabs,
is that possible?
1934
01:30:36,556 --> 01:30:37,599
DAN: No.
1935
01:30:41,770 --> 01:30:43,563
MICHAEL SCOTT:
My name is Michael James Scott.
1936
01:30:44,230 --> 01:30:47,567
On December 6th, 1999,
1937
01:30:47,651 --> 01:30:51,279
when the yogurt shop murders
occurred, I was 17 years old.
1938
01:30:52,572 --> 01:30:55,700
I did not commit those crimes.
I had no involvement in them,
1939
01:30:55,742 --> 01:30:59,829
and I have maintained
my innocence every day since.
1940
01:30:59,913 --> 01:31:02,832
I was accused, tried,
and wrongfully convicted.
1941
01:31:03,959 --> 01:31:06,461
I lost my family.
I lost my youth.
1942
01:31:07,420 --> 01:31:09,255
I lost my early adulthood.
1943
01:31:10,799 --> 01:31:13,218
No court ruling
can return the years
1944
01:31:13,301 --> 01:31:15,720
and the love
that were taken from me,
1945
01:31:15,762 --> 01:31:17,597
but it can acknowledge
the truth.
1946
01:31:19,265 --> 01:31:20,308
I am not guilty.
1947
01:31:21,893 --> 01:31:24,938
Statement
of Robert Springsteen IV.
1948
01:31:25,021 --> 01:31:27,899
This is the statement
of Forrest Brook Welborn.
1949
01:31:29,109 --> 01:31:33,738
My name is Phil Scott.
Michael Scott is my son.
1950
01:31:34,406 --> 01:31:36,282
My name is Janine Casey.
1951
01:31:36,366 --> 01:31:38,326
I am Michael Scott's
former wife.
1952
01:31:39,285 --> 01:31:41,997
Death by cop
is not how I envisioned
1953
01:31:42,080 --> 01:31:44,416
my husband's life ending.
1954
01:31:44,499 --> 01:31:48,461
I'm so proud of Forrest
for never wavering
1955
01:31:49,379 --> 01:31:52,924
on his innocence
in this horrible crime.
1956
01:31:52,966 --> 01:31:56,886
To the Austin Police Department,
the DA's office,
1957
01:31:56,970 --> 01:31:58,722
and to Paul Johnson...
(VOICE BREAKS)
1958
01:32:00,390 --> 01:32:01,474
(SNIFFLES)
1959
01:32:02,308 --> 01:32:03,810
...your tunnel vision...
1960
01:32:05,812 --> 01:32:07,814
stole my daddy's future.
1961
01:32:09,983 --> 01:32:13,069
JUDGE DAYNA: Today's decision
is not an act of generosity.
1962
01:32:13,111 --> 01:32:15,405
It is an act of obligation.
1963
01:32:15,447 --> 01:32:18,783
No ruling can restore
the time taken from you.
1964
01:32:18,867 --> 01:32:20,660
No judgment can fully remedy
1965
01:32:20,744 --> 01:32:22,829
the burden
that you have carried.
1966
01:32:22,912 --> 01:32:26,041
But the court can and does...
1967
01:32:27,333 --> 01:32:31,796
state without qualification
or hesitation
1968
01:32:31,838 --> 01:32:34,049
-that you are cleared...
-♪ (MUSIC FADES) ♪
1969
01:32:35,050 --> 01:32:38,261
...and that your innocence
is affirmed.
1970
01:32:39,095 --> 01:32:40,680
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
1971
01:32:42,015 --> 01:32:44,100
Three, two, one.
1972
01:32:44,184 --> 01:32:46,478
Today's testimony centered
on loss,
1973
01:32:46,519 --> 01:32:49,814
the pain of losing families
and losing youth,
1974
01:32:49,898 --> 01:32:51,733
as the four men
wrongfully accused
1975
01:32:51,816 --> 01:32:53,318
in the yogurt shop murders
1976
01:32:53,359 --> 01:32:55,487
waited to have
their names cleared.
1977
01:32:55,528 --> 01:32:57,989
(INDISTINCT CHATTER)
1978
01:33:11,961 --> 01:33:12,921
{\an8}Mm-hmm.
1979
01:33:13,004 --> 01:33:14,005
{\an8}And, um...
1980
01:33:34,192 --> 01:33:36,653
(INDISTINCT CHATTER CONTINUES)
1981
01:33:37,612 --> 01:33:39,322
I just want you to know that.
1982
01:33:41,032 --> 01:33:42,867
-Okay?
-Thank you.
1983
01:33:46,037 --> 01:33:47,080
Yes.
1984
01:33:47,163 --> 01:33:51,543
♪ (SOFT PENSIVE MUSIC PLAYING) ♪
1985
01:33:59,259 --> 01:34:01,094
DAN: Can you get it up there
without moving the...
1986
01:34:02,595 --> 01:34:04,139
{\an8}SGT. MELANIE RODRIGUEZ:
The story has been updated
1987
01:34:04,222 --> 01:34:06,015
{\an8}with a new ending.
1988
01:34:07,475 --> 01:34:09,727
DAN: Same spot,
but just updated.
1989
01:34:12,689 --> 01:34:14,065
That actually looks good.
1990
01:34:14,107 --> 01:34:16,192
Yeah. Looks pretty even.
1991
01:34:16,818 --> 01:34:17,861
Yeah.
1992
01:34:23,908 --> 01:34:27,871
♪ (SOFT PENSIVE
MUSIC CONTINUES) ♪
1993
01:34:47,432 --> 01:34:52,020
♪ (GENTLE PIANO MELODY PLAYS) ♪
1994
01:36:17,480 --> 01:36:20,191
♪ (MUSIC CONCLUDES) ♪